Beware of this MOVIE? Part II
Posted by apostlepd on November 5, 2007
Should we boycott the upcoming release of “The Golden Compass”? Why are so many Christians giving so much attention to this movie? I know, I know…in the end, they “kill God.” The writer even said, “my books are about killing God.” I’ve gotten all the emails and am very prepared to go see it as soon as it comes out. What? Yes, I’m going to be there at the opening day of “The Golden Compass.” Why am I not boycotting it? Well, ultimately my $8.50 is really worth being able to have honest and open conversations with non-Christians and Christians alike about the movie and it’s messages. I saw the Da Vinci Code, too. Does that make me a sinner? No. What it makes me is prepared. With all of this hype, Christians have two options: (1) You can sit at home and feel good about the fact you’re not going to see a children’s movie about killing God and not giving your money to support a movie written by an atheist and when people try to talk to you about it, you’ll be able to say “I didn’t see it because I think it’s wrong.” or (2) You can go see the movie and watch all of the anti-religious themes and not become an atheist, but rather go out into your peer groups and neighborhoods and use the movie to share the true message about God’s love and salvation through Jesus Christ. This is what many people did when “The Da Vinci Code” came out. Instead of yelling at people to “STAY AWAY!”, some Christians started dialog with non-Christians about who the real Jesus Christ was. I’m sure more new converts were made with that approach than the “STAY AWAY” approach.
Furthermore, I have yet to receive a single email warning me about the graphic nudity, explicit language, and grisly violence that is in American Gangster. Why haven’t any Christians decided to warn their brothers and sisters in Christ about this movie? Is it because God is not threatened by it? Does this movie not challenge our religious beliefs? Is it okay for us to pay $8.50 to see a porno movie but not okay to pay $8.50 to see a kids movie? The fact of the matter is that Satan has tricked us into fighting a battle against the wrong things. We’re fighting against something that can easily be turned into an honest conversation about God’s love and grace (The Golden Compass) and totally ignoring the vast atrocity of American Gangster that contains material that is FAR MORE detrimental to a Christian’s spiritual life than that of the Golden Compass. Am I saying that we should ignore or “not worry about” the messages of The Golden Compass? Absolutely NOT! You have to be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have! (I think someone in the Bible said that.) So when people come up to you after being influenced by the Golden Compass and say “Why do you believe in a God like that?” You can say, “I believe in God almighty, the creator of the universe and giver of salvation through his unlimited love and ultimate sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ–Not the God that is portrayed in The Golden Compass: a God that is overbearing, controlling, unfair, unjust, and (whatever else the reviews said it portrayed God as). After seeing The Golden Compass, (if it even gets into dealing with the anti-God stuff–it’s not supposed to start until the third book) you can use examples of how God was portrayed incorrectly and talk with people about the God of Christianity and share with them verses that reveal God’s true love and divine nature. This movie can actually help Christians spread the Gospel!
What we should be doing with all of our “Beware of this movie” emails is writing about the hidden trash that is being released into theaters. After seeing the previews for American Gangster, I really wanted to see it. And I would have had it not been for screenit.com. Once I read the reviews to it, I can honestly say that I was so offended by the content that I had to start telling people to “Beware of this movie.” Not just “beware” but “boycott at all costs.” It is essentially a porno movie with 126 “F” words and tons of violence. While there’s nothing wrong with sending out emails warning people of the messages in The Golden Compass, you just need to realize that there are FAR MORE dangerous movies out there that posses a HIGHER threat level than a children’s movie with “anti-God” themes. We need to be warning our brothers in Christ to stay away from American Gangster and to not allow themselves to be pulled into Satan’s trap. (I doubt many sisters in Christ are dying to see that movie–but you get pulled into Satan’s trap for countless “girly movies” that are just as sexual and inappropriate.)
So should we boycott The Golden Compass? I don’t think so. It’s far too great of an opportunity to let it slip by. Should we boycott American Gangster? Absolutely! Will I receive a dozen more emails about The Golden Compass before it’s release in December? Oh yeah. Will I receive a single email warning me of the sinful and spiritually harmful material in American Gangster between now and when it goes into homes on DVD? Probably not. That’s the problem.
(NOTE: While I referred to The Golden Compass as a “children’s” movie, I do not know how “kid-friendly” it will be or if the content is suitable for younger children. The movie has been advertised as a “children’s” movie. Each parent needs to make a personal decision if the content and messages of this movie are appropriate for their kids.)
[After 10,000 views and almost a thousand comments between Facebook and wordpress, I feel compelled to add a few things to further clarify my statements above]
The main negative reaction to my thoughts above come in the form of saying I am contradicting myself by going to see The Golden Compass (TGC) and not seeing American Gangster. This is not a contradiction, and I will explain why. First of all, I do not look at TGC as immoral. While the “anti-religious” themes are not holy, the author and producer of the movie have a right to present an opposing view to Christianity. That does not mean it will cause me to sin by watching it. So many of the comments I have received have told me I was sinning and “not a Christian” for going to see this movie. I will say it again: It is not immoral (violating moral codes of the Bible). It does violate our Christian world view. It attacks the foundations of what we believe as Christians. So what does that make it? TGC is persecution; American Gangster is immoral; it is sinful-There is a HUGE difference in the two. So in response to the “so what is keeping [you] from smoking pot or having sex before marriage just to be able to relate to people who do that,” I must say that those with this thinking are doing what I just described. You’re assuming it’s sinful to see TGC and it’s not. Is it sinful to read the Koran or Book of Mormon? Absolutely not. God forbid we hide from the opposition because we’re afraid of it. The difference is that watching TGC is not sin. Watching nudity (by the way, nudity is pornography regardless of whether it’s sexual in nature) and listening to vulgarities (while it may not cause you to sin initially) does lead countless people to sin, and even if it doesn’t lead you to sin, it definitely has a subtle effect on your spirituality. (Read Part III, the link is at the bottom.)
As Christians, we need to rise up against the persecution and endure it. James writes, “Consider it pure joy whenever you face trials…the testing of your faith develops perseverance…so you can be mature and complete not lacking anything.” How do people who boycott this movie and countless other types of persecution ever expect to have their faith challenged when they avoid every form of trial or opposition that comes their way? TGC is simply one man’s efforts at persecuting the church and Christianity. You can either run away from it or use it to strengthen your faith. If you never face opposing views to your Christianity and come out on top, you’re never going to become mature and complete. What if Jesus, when faced with the cross, decided that because it was going to hurt and it would be difficult, that he was just going to pass?
“But you don’t have to see a movie to be able to share the gospel!” (This is the other main argument against my viewpoint.) I never said you had to see a movie to share the gospel. I said you had to see TGC in order to have honest and open conversations about TGC and it’s views on Christianity. Obviously you can share the gospel without TGC. You just can’t talk about TGC without seeing TGC.
Every Christian needs to realize that things are not going to get any easier. The world is not going to come back to being a Christian-dominant society. We must face the trials and persecutions and be prepared to defend our views on all things. Face the persecutions and trials and allow the Holy Spirit to strengthen your faith through those opportunities.
For further thoughts on the immorality of movies and what is really “Killing God,” read Part III: CLICK HERE.
Tj said
Hello, I saw your post on Facebook and thought you could help me. One of my friends is an atheist. I talked to her today at lunch and all my Christian friends yelled at me for being hard on her. Could you send me an email about some hints of what to do? Thanks.
Sara said
Exactly! The real issue is being overlooked, great blog!
Amy said
I couldn’t agree more! That was so well said. I was on the whole boycott thing, but a lot of people are going to go anyways, I would rather see it and be prepared than not. I also took a skim through the book and it did make me sick when I was done. I am also tempted go buy every single book and try and keep them off the shelves. Ha! Thank you again for the opinion and insight. Helped make a decision.
Brad said
I think this is a very logical, Christian-like look at a very controversial topic– as long as it is speaking for oneself and not for a parent who intends on bringing these ideas into the home. You can not talk to anyone (with an intent to teach them) without knowing both sides-[whether it's the drama over Harry Potter, this with the Golden Compass, or the authenticity of book of Mormon.]
We just have to be careful. You’re reasoning is –amazing– and i couldn’t agree with you more- BUT please clarify: what you do for yourself and what you do with your children has a thin line. They can watch the movies later, and get their own opinion later; but as the topic at hand is not what we’re doing -but- what our families are doing, I admit to be on the more conservative side you’ve addressed.
Daniel said
Maybe I got something else out of the books, but for me I began to think on my own and formulate my own faith instead of going along with what everyone else was telling me at the time. And in the end book, I seem to remember there being a Higher Angel, the authority, pretending to be the creator of us all. He said there was a creator but he opted not to interfere with the things he created. This sounds a whole lot more like a Fallen Angel that I’m sure you’ve read stories about… Also, perhaps it’s more related to the Deists beliefs than Atheists?
Martin said
I got the link to this blog off of facebook. I like your comparison between this and the Da Vinci code. I read Da Vinci code (and angels and demons which was better) primarily to see what all the fuss was about. I’ll probably do the same with these books. Do I agree with Pullman? Absolutely not. But do I want to inform myself? Of course. Discussions with people without having knowledge is pointless. Good blog
Ann said
I understand your point and respect it. Consider the verse, “be innocent of what is evil and wise in what is good.” I do believe a strong mature Christian could theoretically see this movie with hopes to use it in his discussions w/ unbelievers or such, but someone could say, “Sex out of marriage or rape is wrong, but I need to experience it or view it before I can know both sides.” That my friend is a dangerous way to live. Jesus didn’t disguise himself when addressing evil(i.e. those selling in the temple), rather he addressed it w/ strong opposition and force. I am not a supporter of any movie that protrays opposition to what is called lovely, upright, true, etc or that attacks God. I think we should be in Scripture enough to be able to “defend” our point of view w/out having to see the movie. Thanks for being levelheaded in your blog. It’s what made me continue reading. May we strive to be at peace w/ every man/woman. God bless.
Andy said
Well said.
Ashley said
I personally enjoyed the books, I read them when I was in 8th grade, I am currently a senior in High School and I am very excited about the movie!
I AM a Christian. my opinion is that there is nothing wrong with enjoying the FICTION. when I read them I did NOT see anything about “Killing God” and please don’t knock that because I was in 8th grade when I read them!! I am certified “gifted” and I am a very intelligent person.
I did NOT become an Atheist after reading the books, nor did my parents, who yes read the books, and yes are also very excited about seeing the movies.
We read the books as FICTION, and nothing besides that. They are great FICTION books. Reading them and enjoying them is NOT bad if you take them as such! There are other worse things kids are exposed to that we need to be a little more worried about than a FICTION trilogy and movies!
Kennetha said
Thank you so much. Have you read Roaring Lambs? I truly believe you’d enjoy it. One part in particular urges Christians to stop protesting stuff. That gets nothing done and leads no one to Christ. What you talk about, actually developing conversations and building relationships with people… it’s so important. You aren’t saying go to the movies and promote it, you’re just saying “know your stuff.” I really appreciate that!
Lee said
Im a Christian & Im still going to see the movie so that I can know where people are coming from when/if they want to discuss it w/ me or I w/ them. It’s a LOT easier to sit & watch a movie than it is to read a book so that’s why Im going to pay $4.50 @ the cheap theatres (which release new movies WHEN they come out). I do, however, think Christian parents should not let their children watch this & it is tragic that non-Christian parents will allow their kids to watch this, because children are very easily deceived while they’re still young in mind. BUT I still want to have good discussion w/ ANYONE who watches this movie…
Ali said
Exactly! I don’t personally see anything WRONG with the movie, the whole “they’re trying to turn us into atheists” angle is over blown. YES, we are Christians looking to draw more to Christ. But we are also to know the ways of the enemy. I think that this could be a two-edged sword kinda thing. It’s all on the mindset.
Tony said
Personally, I do not see a problem with this movie or any other one for that fact. I am a Christian, and I can go to see any of these movies without my faith being challenged. Yes, parents need to be mindful of what they let their children watch, but since this movie has not yet been released, who knows what is really in it? It is my understanding that all of the religious tones have been taken out so that parents can feel secure in taking their children to this movie. Furthermore, I have recently gone to see American Gangster. Yes, there are some violent and sexual images involved, but why is that such a problem? It was a decent movie, even if I didn’t like parts of it. Why is there a need to boycott such movies, if you don’t like the material or message of a movie, than just don’t see it. There is no need to rise up and urge others to stop support of a particular movie.
Skye said
I agree with Ashley. -Please- don’t believe what everyone’s saying without thinking, because frankly most of it isn’t true. I’m Catholic, and I love these books. I will definitely be seeing the movie on the first day it comes out.
Philip Pullman’s His Dark Materials trilogy, the first book of which is titled The Golden Compass, is set in an alternate world. The psychics behind the alternate world theory is very complex, but basically when any event happens, major or minor, there are multiple possible outcomes. …
The important point here is that it was not the religion itself that was corrupt, rather it was the people who used it as a justification to persecute others.
This is one of the main themes of His Dark Materials, as Pullman said in the following interview.
http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/pullman_08_07.html
“How much trouble did the project encounter in America as a result of your book’s perceived anti-Christian bias?
The problem for those who think there’s an anti-religious anti-moral bias in the books comes when they haven’t actually read the books: of course there’s a criticism of organised theocratic tyrannical religion but who can disagree with that?
A review in the Church Times said, ‘When the morality is secure the metaphysics don’t matter.’ The qualities which my books criticise are intolerance, fanaticism, cruelty, and the qualities they celebrate are love, kindness, openness, curiosity.
Theocracies don’t have to be religious. Soviet Russia was a theocracy. They had a holy book, which was Marx; they had prophets and doctors of the church (Lenin, Engels, Stalin, and so on); they had a priesthood that had privileges and powers above the ordinary, which was the Communist Party.”
http://imdb.com/title/tt0385752/board/thread/76368461?d=76368461&p=1#76368461
This was the first post in a board titled “The Story Is Not Anti-Spiritual” on the discussion forums for the TGC movie. (Obviously the author is not Catholic, but they are Christian, and they raise some good points.)
Some more quotes from Pullman that I didn’t have time to cite:
“In the name of their god, they have burned, hanged, tortured, maimed, robbed, violated, and enslaved millions of their fellow-creatures, and done so with the happy conviction that they were doing the will of God, and they would go to Heaven for it. That is the religion I hate, and I’m happy to be known as its enemy.”
“I think my position would be that throughout human history, the greatest moral advances have been made by religious leaders such as Jesus and the Buddha. And the greatest moral wickedness has been perpetrated by their followers. How many millions of people have been killed in the name of this religion or that one? Burnt, hanged, tortured. It’s just extraordinary.”
Two articles from CHRISTIANS in support of the books:
http://www.hisdarkmaterials.org/news/his-dark-materials-books/responses-to-anti-religion-claims
http://www.tuttletimes.com/lifestyles/cnhinsliterature_story_312150144.html?keyword=topstory
Beth said
I am one of the people who recieved an email about boycotting this movie, and having never even heard of these books before, I was horrified by something produced for children where God is killed in the end. And of course, after hearing something like this, I wanted to know exactly what it was about so that I could do just as you recommend. I think you make some very valid points, and as a Christian I always want to be able to speak intelligently against something that so openly opposes Christianity. BUT, I have no intentions of ever watching this or reading the books. Our spiritual selves are very fragile things, and Satan has a very big bag of tricks to use against us. No matter how you spin it, watching something so perversely twisted against God cannot be good for you. No matter how deeply entrenched in your faith you are–I have been a devout Christian my entire life–the Bible tells us to stay away from all evil. I would not want to expose myself to something that could subtly harm me, and I abhor the thought that so many children will be exposed to it. By protesting we let filmmakers know that such movies won’t be tolerated, and maybe prevent them from producing other, similar films. We should make our point, take a stand, and let the world know that we–as Christians–cannot tolerate the spread of atheist beliefs to our children.
But thank you for presenting such a well thought out view; you certainly made me pause to think about it.
Bronzegears said
Just a thought, but has anyone considered how “killing God” is a completely preposterous idea. I mean, aside from Jesus, who chose to be sacrificed out of love. If God doesn’t want to be killed, he won’t be killed. That is, in fact, if He is God; which I believe he is. So, the whole concept of “killing God” is laughable, unless it’s all in fiction.
I agree with your argument. I think that even if it is an outright attack on our God, He can use this situation and use us as His Children to spread His message of love and hope. I think this is what Paul talked about when he said we should be “more than conquerors.” That is, we take what the ememy throws at us, and, by the grace of the Father, we make it backfire.
Now the idea of going out and supporting the movie by paying your $8.50 at the theater (or whatever it is where you live), I think that is something that each of us has to decide. We should think, “Will I, in going to this movie, bring glory to God?” And, “Will I be glorifying God and truly be showing His worth and power if I boycott this film?” And, “If I do go to this film, wil I become available to talk to others about what is accurate and inaccurate about the portrail of God and His Kingdom?”
I can’t say whether or not I’m going to see it yet. I admit, when I first saw a preview for it, I was excited. It looks beautiful. However, in light of the content, it’s worth rethinking. I’m afraid all of us in American culture have become too susceptible to the influence of our media.
Holly H. said
I would just like for you to know that you completely stole the words RIGHT out of my mouth! SERIOUSLY. I didn’t even read the whole thing && I was just about to post an item on Facebook about everything you said!
But the reason I wanted to say that was a little different. I really agree with the “democratic” way of being the kind of person that says, “Don’t ask; don’t tell. Do what you want, just don’t bother me.” Which isn’t exactly great, but w/e. But who am –>I to say that its wrong to “believe” in his books, or for Chrissake, even see a fiction movie?! I’m not sure if that author believes in what he writes. Most likely does, but I could be wrong. But honestly, why is that so much our business? I sleep peacefully-assured at night thinking, && assuming that he write his trilogy of books with the expectation to not only sabotage my religion, but also to expect ME to hope that one day GOD could be “killed”…COME ON. Let’s be real for just a second! This is what I hate; groups like that on MySpace. In case THOSE “Christian” people don’t know this; there are a LOT of non-denominational && lost ppl out there just sitting on the fence waiting to be pulled over… && SHOVING a group invitation like that down their throat, … about a fiction movie…that is a turn off to them taking a new-second life. Trust me; I know it firsthand. I know so many people && I ask them what they think, && that’s what I hear.. ALWAYS!
Well if you’d like to talk more about it, (which I would LOVE!
then feel free to e-mail me.
Take great care!
-Holly
David said
Amen!
Matt said
please forgive such a long post, brothers and sisters, but I feel compelled to disagree:
As a brother or sister grows in age and maturity, different levels of interaction with the world become appropriate. A child has no business seeing a movie such as American Gangster. However, a believing adult may indeed profit, even LEARN, from seeing a movie such as this one. It all depends on the approach.
If I attend a movie merely for entertainment value, then of course American Gangster would be filling my mind with damaging images which I passively accept with uncritical eyes. If this is my approach, then there is little reason to invest time and money in any movie. The kingdom of God does not seem very concerned with keeping the children of God entertained.
However, if a film is approached as a medium of art, through which IDEAS are communicated by means of a STORY, we have a new freedom to watch movies critically and evaluate what is actually being said here. Each negative element of violence or sex or language is not to be denounced ipso facto, but rather understood in the CONTEXT of the narrative.
For instance, let us consider the film American Gangster. As the main character, a gang-banging cocaine distributer named Frank Lucas, is eating a meal peacefully with his family, the filmmakers flash to grisly scenes of crackheads suffering from their addiction and Frank’s dealers being killed in gunfire, portraying a clearly negative message towards drugs and gangs. They communicate powerfully the idea that there are indeed severe consequences for the very actions which allow him to afford to be meanwhile eating a luxurious meal with his family. He is not a hero. Though many films are not so responsible, in this one, drugs and violence are not glorified, but condemned.
Disturbing things happen in this movie. However, disturbing things happen fifteen minutes across town from your suburb. Is it not selfish on our part to refuse to even SEE that these things happen when little children born into such situations are forced to EXPERIENCE them daily?
If we take the approach that we cannot put before ourselves ANYTHING we don’t agree with, then surely we must tear out the offensive pages of our Bibles that portray David committing adultery, Cain murdering Abel rather violently, and Stephen being stoned to death…
The point is, we see reality for what it is, not by shielding ourselves from it, but by seeing the redemption of good which overcomes it: God restores and forgives David, and, though not without consequences, through Bathsheba brings forth Solomon, the wisest person ever to live; God uses the story of Cain to show us the immediate depravity that resulted from man’s rebellion towards God, teaching us to trust and obey him instead; God uses the story of Stephen to show us the hatred of the world towards believers and the reward for those who obey in spite of it.
Evil is to be met and overcome by the love of God and the word of God. While obviously not on the level of the Bible, a film can show us the reality of the world in ways that compel us to act as followers of Christ. Reading an article in the newspaper about the 1994 genocide in Rwanda is not nearly as likely to compel you to take action as seeing the film Hotel Rwanda. Some films, though of course not all, can use violence, sex, and portrayal of evil as evil to inform us of the reality of a suffering, broken world, and compel us to meet that world with the light of the Gospel and the love of Christ.
again, my apologies for such a long-winded post.
Christy said
I believe that one thing to consider is that we shouldn’t have to warn each other about movies like American Gangster. As Christians, when deciding what movie to see, we should always take into consideration the rating it receives. If it’s rated R, which American Gangster is, then you don’t go see it, whether you’re an adult or not. It sets a bad example as followers of Christ.
The reason some may need to be warned about The Golden Compass is that it is being promoted as a Children’s movie, which may be deceptive to many Christians.
Really, I believe that all Christians should consisder in prayer whether or not to see a movie in theater because while some people may not be spiritually affected, others may be affected very negatively. Satan can and will use the things you choose to see and do to attack you. So be careful.
Josh said
Hi, I read your post and for the most part agreed with what you said. However, I think you’re argument (while correct) is a little misdirected. I think most people are afraid of this movie because of the (perceived) danger to children, who are less capable of taking what they see and discerning truth from it. I think that, as a general rule, adults who are secure in their faith need not hesitate to see this movie, but parents should hesitate to send their kids to it, especially without carefully talking them through the ideas presented afterwards.
As a side note, I read the “His Dark Materials” trilogy at a young age (11 or 12, I’d guess), without an adult carefully talking me through the ideas presented therein, and have suffered no lapses of faith from the books. Rather than simply planning to attend the movie to be ready to present an argument against it, I have been waiting anxiously for this movie for some time. So you know my standpoint on it. I only write to say that your argument may be directed towards something that is not the real issue that people may have with this movie.
JC said
Dont’ support them with your $8.50. If you want to be able to converse about the Pullman stories, get them from your local library for free. You admit the books have an anti-Christian story; why would you support the francise with your money when you can gain the benefit you seek (being able to discuss the stories) for free? Same goes for Da Vinci… I can’t see how you justify supporting Dan Brown with your money when you could have just as easily read the books.
(Yes, the movies and books aren’t exactly the same, but the underlying story/paradigm is—which is what we are concerned with as Christians.)
Jared said
Awesome man, many churches today are telling us to be bullhorn christians (as said in a nooma video) and thats dumb. People are not going to want to come and have a relationship with someone whos followers are telling them that they’re going to burn in hell for there sins. Your blog is very encouraging in that now I know that I’m not the only one out here who thinks these things through. Thanks!
In christ, Jared
Usoki said
I have to say, though…there’s a pretty good reason no one is going to warn people about American Gangster… It’s called a “rating system”, and depending on the sequence of letters the movie receives, you can expect to see a certain level of offensive content contained within the movie.
Emily said
I thought what you wrote was very thoughtfully and intelligently constructed and appreciate a non-radical viewpoint on “boycotting ” the film immediately, and could not agree more about American Gangster.
Jeff said
Yes! Yes! Yes! I couldnt agree more
Chris said
A movie is a movie is a movie. It is a movie. It is fiction, and it is entertainment (kind of like the Bible). A Christian trying to convert an Atheist and using this movie as an argument for God or whatever you might use it for, is going to get just as far as using any of the other arguments they always use. Why try to convert people? Why not let them have their beliefs as they (usually) let you have yours. No movie, book or anything else is going to convert a truly educated atheist who is firm in what they believe in; it certainly would do nothing to convert me, anyway. As I say to anyone else who tries, show me hard, legitimate evidence that God exists and I’ll consider the possibility. Otherwise, spend your time looking for it, not talking to me about the possibility of it.
So, if you want to see a movie, go see it…laugh and cry and be entertained for a couple of hours and then let it go. If Christians would put as much collective energy towards something beneficial as they put towards useless actions like boycotting movies (and boycotting the military, and supporting wars, and all the other rediculous things they do), the world would be a much better place
Brandon said
why do people hate this movie so much? Because it conflicts with their beleifs? isn’t everyone entitled to their own personal beleifs? If you don’t agree with it, don’t go see it, don’t boycott it, if the only criticism you can come up with is that you don’t agree with the idea, than go to church instead of boycotting it.
Matt said
I also agree with those who say that this movie should not be seen. I do not believe that we can rationalize doing something contrary to God’s Word. We cannot say to ourselves that the potential good will outweigh the bad in this situation. We must never do evil that good may come of it. The Bible clearly teaches that we should “set no wicked thing before our eyes” and that we should be innocent to that which is evil. Satan would indeed like everyone to think that there is no God, as this movie portrays. I think that if we asked Jesus Himself if it would be right to watch a movie that puts the idea of oblitterating and forgetting about the Creator of the universe, I don’t think He would respond with a “Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.” Even though a movie is obviously fiction, it does not mean that the themes and images can’t affect you as a Christian. Jesus says on the Sermon on the Mount that we as Christians are the salt of the earth. He then asks “If the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again?” What He is saying here is that if we as Christians go along with our culture and media and do nothing that separates us form non-Christians, how are we supposed to transform our culture? We have “lost our saltiness” as believers seeking to live holy lives and bring others to Christ. You did not see Jesus going to the ampitheaters where they did vile acts so that He could say that He now can confront culture about what He saw. We are to stay away form all forms of evil. So, in conclusion, I don’t believe that we should voluntary watch a movie that portrays themes contrary to God’s Word, for the devil can use those themes in our lives when we least expect it.
Nuetral said
(I appologize before hand to you who are wanting a talk only on the movie, but I’m interested in oppinions to my reply as well. So if you are interested in a non-confrontational religious discussion, please consider reading my post.)
Now while I consider myself a divote believer in the possibility of a devine spirit, I believe that people should have freedom as well. While I don’t take a specific notice to any god, I keep my thoughts open to other possibilities. People can reason with their beliefs, facts from written works, telling quotes and teachings sure, however, I think when it gets down to it, nobody knows. It seems to me that the world is hell bent on getting others on their side. After thinking about it, it’s quite logical to say that the church shouldn’t “seek” out followers, but the people should come to the church. If someone really needs a god, they can seek him. That’s how it’s suppose to be. The bible may say otherwise, but in the end I see the bible as a man-written document, and man is by nature corrupt in most aspects, and could easily write things in the wrong way, or have placed things in there that might not have happened. More or less I think that religion is merely a tool to help us run our lives in a way filled with hope and great morals. I guess what I’m out to say here, is that I will see the golden compass, not because I’m an atheist, not so I can use it to defend faith, or to convert others to my way of thinking, but I’m going to see the view of this from both sides. Believer and non-believer.
Amy said
There are some good points here; arguing over something that you don’t have all the facts on is pointless. But, I’m a little weary of going to see this. I want to be informed about the movie but I don’t want to support what the movie is based on and that’s atheistic beliefs.
I do have a plan however; if someone asks me about what I thought of the movie I’ll just truthfully say I never saw it but I know what the premise of it is and then go on and explain that the God I know is everlasting and the creator of all things. He is just and He loves us very much. I’d probably would then be laughed at and then they’d “explain” to me how messed up the world is and that if God is so great as you say then how come all this bad stuff happens? It happens because it’s partly our fault and He lets it happen so we can learn to lean on Him and ask Him to help us not to do it again.
We all have a choice to make about this movie. Seeing it may seem like the right or the wrong choice. But it really should be between you and God.
Chris said
I was born and raised Catholic, and feel I have a good relationship with God. About 10 years ago growing up, I read the entire Dark Objects trilogy, and it obviously has had a profound affect in turning me towards atheism. I also went to a Catholic grade school and high school, and the Golden Compass was on a reading list while I went to school. I dont understand how nobody can have a problem with a book, but the minute that there is publicity about it, there are many sites, stories, articles, and movements to control the revenue on this book and the movie. Personally, if a story is enough to go against your faith, then you really weren’t that faith filled in the first place. I believe that reading these books can contribute to an understanding in others misconceptions, and might allow believers to address them.
The important thing about the upcoming movie to me is that the Golden Compass does not even include the character of God like it does in the Amber Spyglass (and even then it is called the Authority). The Golden Compass does however, attack a Church, which can be thought to represent any organized religion. Throughout the books, it shows how organized religion is oppressive and forces everyone to have the same beliefs that they teach. I feel like by banning the book and the movie, we are just adding validity to the reality of the book, even though it is really just a story. So by saying this book is evil and should never be read is making the atheist ideas in the book more visible to people who read the books.
leeannmarcel said
I 100% agree with you.
Shawn Pavlas said
I could not agree more with you on the golden compass issue. I find it very sad that the church chooses to flee when we are told to stand firm. i think that you are exactly right about the opportunity the movie provides for conversation.
thankyou for your blog.
Amanda said
Thank you for that post. I couldn’t agree more with what you said. And as many other people have posted it is a book of Fiction. I read these books i believe my Jr or Sr year of High School 3-4 years ago. I really enjoyed reading them, but they are Fiction just like the De Vinci Code, Harry Potter and all the other Fiction books out there. But I don’t remember anyone killing God. I just might have to reread the first book again… but I really don’t remember anything about it.
My aunt sent me an email about all of this and I told her that the books are in my cousins HS and she should read them before she sends out emails against them. For some reason I can see more good coming out of these movies for families (including kids) than christian movies. What better time to sit down with your family and discuss what you just just witnessed, because you cannot hide thing like this from kids, someday they will see this movie or may even read the books, the apple that you can’t have always looks the best. This movie may even get Christian families together and talking about God.
It makes me really sad as a missionary to see the church fight about all of this, when there are things that we truely should be fighting about. In the US we fight and start things up over what the church building looks like and forget about the church body inside.
All I can do is hope and pray that one day the church will open up their eyes and see that they may be doing more damage to the christian society than helping. Thank you again for the post.
Terence said
Just like I won’t be sending my KIDS to see “American Gangster”, I won’t be sending my KIDS to go see “The Golden Compass”. Admittedly, I haven’t read all the posts on here but I feel that the real issue most have with the movie is that is flies under the radar of most discerning adults to get at kids. Obviously an adult can “argue” the point of God’s existence or nature to an unbelieving soul, but what defenses does a child have who is still developing their ideas of who God is. Also, most will counter this with saying that a child should form their own opinion of God, but my question would be, “what does taking them to a movie like this do in place of parental guidence?” The same thing, “indoctrinate”.
Melissa said
LEt me just say that I think when Jesus said “Love your neighbors” he didn’t interpret this to mean that we should constantly be boycotting and rippping ideas, movie, books, etc. apart whenever we, well, basically feel like it. Doesn’t that scream we, as Christians are “us” and everybody else is a “them”. hmmm…I just wish that Christians would take Christ’s voice and not just talk about movies (how trivial) but instead start talking and acting out the love of Christ for the community of believers (his church i.e. all the starving, diseased, helpless, hopeless people of this world…yes…not just America). As Christians we have the power to make this world a better place if we would really put Jesus’ teachings into out everyday lives. This is constantly my prayer. I am just appalled at those of us who spread hate instead of the clear will of God, love. Just think about it.
Jen said
Christian adults are not concerned about other Christian adults viewing this film. The issue here is our children and their developing faith. An atheist man with an obvious agenda should not be influencing our children. Within this series of books, sex between two 12 year olds is included as well as the existence of homosexual angels.
Let’s not over-complicate the issue. God tells us to take care in what enters our minds, ears, eyes, etc. This applies even more so for the children in our care.
M. S. said
Excellent and well-presented points. With thoughts like these and actions based on them, our generation may yet be able to right a few of the wrongs passed down to us by a tradition of stand off-ishness. Thank you!
Andi said
I read the books in sixth grade and ever since then have been in love with them. Whenever mentioned the books to them I did warn people about the author’s interesting and somewhat hostile views towards God and the church, but I guess I just saw the whole killing God part as rather a small part of the whole story. Lyra does NOT go on a quest to kill God. Rather, she goes on a quest to try to save other children from the fate of her friend who was murdered by her father. If you think seeing the movie is important for discussion, don’t miss the books. I’m sure Hollywood will do everything it can to emphasize the most controversial parts of the books, and possibly play them up even more than the books do. I also read the Da Vinci code, the Harry Potter books, and pretty much anything else Christians have railed against. Yes, I’m a Christian (i don’t think I should even have to say that just cause I read those books) but I don’t think simply reading something threatens my faith. Rather, it gives me great insight into how the rest of the world thinks. And, while this may be hard to take, this book is ultimately a fiction about good versus evil. Good wins, just like it should. Yes, he did make God evil (actually old and senile more than evil) but in the end, he ends it with good winning. I don’t think he created any new principles that weren’t already part of God’s world. He just got the sides wrong…
Nhi said
I couldn’t agree more
Mary said
I stumbled across this blog on Facebook, and I agree with it’s basic idea, although not entirely.
I am a practicing Christian. I am in college. I will be seeing the Golden Compass with my friends when it comes out. Why? Simple. Because I promised to see the Golden Compass with them (which I’m not entirely thrilled to see) so that they would then see I Am Legend with me when it comes out. (I read the book I Am Legend and can’t wait to see how it will be presented on screen.)
Am I not thrilled to see the Golden Compass because of the anti-religious views that the books portrayed? No, I just never read the books and hadn’t heard of it before the ads came out, and the ads themselves didn’t really interest me. I see no problem with the movie whatsoever. You see, I am strong in my faith. I LOVE my faith. It is what sustains me. However, when I read a book or see a movie I do so with the knowledge that the book or movie is self-contained. The issues raised therein need not apply to any other part of my life if I don’t want it to, or I can allow a thought caused by a book or a movie to influence my whole life if I see fit.
I find the fear that an anti-religious film (or book) will cause one’s soul to weaken and turn from God to be both sad and silly. It seems silly to me for a person to think that they can be influenced thus against their will, and also sad because that kind of fear Must have a backing somewhere in reality.
I have Christian and non-Christian and non-religious friends, and none of us look upon the Golden Compass as a movie that will cause any of our very diverse beliefs to alter one bit. We’re just going to watch a fun children’s movie where I’m told there will be the guy who played the latest James Bond and talking polar bears. If we DO see non-religious views in the movie, will we talk about them? Maybe. We saw Narnia together too, though, but we didn’t talk about Aslan standing for a savior. We just watched that for fun as well. Is it really so hard to separate oneself from the influences of works of fiction? Would God want us to hide from an experience if we thought it might in some way maybe make us less of a Christian because of a theme that probably won’t even figure into the whole of the thing? Well, maybe, I’ll admit. I certainly don’t know everything. But I know this…I’ll be watching the talking polar bears happily, with no fear for my immortal soul.
Logan said
Hey man great stuff. I completely agree with you. This “boycott” of the movie is a perfect example of the “us versus them” mentality of mainstream Christianity. Sadly, this is how the rest of the world sees us as well. This is much like the “us versus them” mentality that is seen in politics from the religious right in such controversial issues of abortion and gay marriage. Instead of having an intelligent, intellectual discussion about what we believe and why, we tend to just say its all bad and all wrong and leave it at that. That is the exact reason why the rest of the world sees us as close-minded.
Clayton said
I would just like to point out something that seems to have been overlooked. The books are fiction. People, Christian or not, should be able to easily tell the difference between fact and fiction. Children (and adults, for that matter) should be taught the difference, and realize that someone making another world up where that worlds “god” dies is not an attack. Tolkien created a vast world, completely lacking the Creator as we know him. There are more important things in life than arguing about a work of fiction.
A student said
People this is just a movie..Its not to be taken literally..I mean gee, if you are a christian and dont want to see it, or your kids to see it then dont. Simple as that. Dont try to convice others not to see it..they know what they are watching, its their decision…Its like all these christians are trying to force their ways upon everyone…saying whats bad and whats not. Guys we cant tell the world to believe what we believe and we cant force our ways onto them..get my point? I know this comment will get alot of negative feedback but its my opinion -I.A.
Marie said
I mostly agree with what was written although I still don’t know whether I have any interest in seeing the movie…just from lack of interest at this point. From the beginning, my biggest problem with this whole boycott thing is that I don’t feel like it should be necessary. I would never think about sending my kids to see a movie that I wasn’t sure of the content and I wouldn’t let them read this kind of book if I hadn’t read it first. Are parents not out there reading the books they give their kids and watching the movies that they watch? I would say that is a bigger problem than this movie coming out in the theaters. If parents monitored what their kids were reading and watching then we wouldn’t even have to discuss this. Secondly, I don’t feel like most of these people who are calling for a boycott are well-informed about the book. I’ve read some reviews of the books by Christians who have read them and many people are ranking them up there with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. I personally plan to go get the books as soon as I can and find out what the content is really like. When there’s this much controversy about a book, it’s worth completely checking out for yourself whether that means reading the book or seeing the movie. I personally would recommend the book because you will get a complete picture of what the author writes about.
Amanda said
With all sincerity coming from a sister in Christ, and thankfulness that someone is speaking out about this, AMEN BROTHER!
I found this article through the facebook group, as it seems most people have, and I would like to thank you for taking a stand for this issue, for pointing out what the real problem is. That it lies in the hearts of people unwilling to face things that they don’t agree with in order to remain comfortable in their own surroundings that dare not contradict their own beliefs. Even though they are beliefs that I, for the most part, share. As you said, this is an opportunity for Christians to show the world why we believe what we believe, and show the world the love of Jesus Christ reigning in our hearts as we refuse to act on a message of anger and hate, that will ultimately just cause a controversy and cause more people to see the movie than before. Think about it, there are probably a lot of people out there who weren’t considering seeing the movie until people started bashing it. So not only are the bashers creating a bad testimony for themselves, they are acheiving the exact OPPOSITE of what their boycott is setting out to accomplish.
A lot of what I want to say has been said already, and I think I need to write a lot, so I’ll be posting it on my blog later tonight I believe. But thank you for addressing this issue, and for challanging the attitude behind the boycott, as it does absolutely nothing to spread the love of God, and the message of His salvation to the rest of the world.
Cindy said
I highly doubt that you will read this considering how many ppl responded already, but for the chance that you do…
First of all, american gangster is not as important an issue because it doesnt help condemn ppl to hell. Yes, they are sinners in the movie and that itself does condemn them, but they can still turn to Christ. Now what the golden compass can do is, maybe not with this movie but with the books that parents will buy their children after viewing this movie, will put ideas in their heads that the dont need God, or there is no God and THAT will condemn them to hell. The only unforgivable sin is denying the Holy Spirit (not like the stupid youtube movement, but not accepting Christ’s free gift of salvation) which the movie and the books promote you do by showing kids how inept god really is or trying to keep kids from believing in the One true God.
What we want to do by boycotting is make it fail as a movie and show hollywood that america does not want ‘anti-God’ movies and stuff like that. I still intend to see this movie, but I am going to wait until it comes out on dvd and rent it. This is the same thing I did for the da vinci code because I refused to support the movie. I want movies like these to fail at the box office and Christians support movies like these so we can ‘intelligently talk to non-Christians about it,’ you’re still letting them (hollywood, athiests, etc.) win! Just wait til it comes out on video and rent it, and challenge others to do so. That way you’re not paying the athiests for putting their trash on the big screen.
And if you want to talk about porno like in american gangster, lets talk about the third book of this series, which is what all the kids will be reading (exaggerating) if they go see this film. The third book fetures the boy and girl in a very sensual, sexual scene; completely inappropriate for children. My best friend read these books as a kid and by the grace of God he was brought up in a strong catholic (I am a Christian, and we are both saved…Im not sure what denominaton you are…some ppl dont believe catholics can be saved) home and was very dismayed that the books ended the way they did; the sex scene and the kids killing God. We’re both scifi buffs and he said they were great books besides the aforementioned scenes and still recommends I read them because they’re really cool.
What a selling point for athiests tho, really cool childrens books that have a pro-athiest theme.
Sorry this was so long, I really hope you read this. If you did, I encourage you to email me back with any comments or whatever. I do encourage you to boycott this film so that it will fail in the boxoffice. You can still rent it, and in the mean time, you always have the books – then you will be even more informed! How much MORE will you know then to be able to talk to non-Christians about this film and the books!
Brooke said
honestly, i don’t see as much of a problem with this movie as everyone else seems to.
i am a christian, and i see the adult movies that promote lots of sexual behavior and bad language with poor morals, and this kid’s movie based on a series by this atheist comes along, and it’s horrible. an atheist could write an atheism-supporting book for adults, and it’s a hit. gah.
I read the Golden Compass books when I was a 13-14 year old kid, and I loved them. I really don’t think kids read into it that much. Reflecting upon it NOW, I realize his intentions as an author, but I did not see it then, and neither will children.
I don’t think american gangster OR this movie should be supported, but we should focus on american gangster first.
Amanda said
I totally agree. So many Christians think they are sending a message to the world by boycotting this. They are sending a message…but it’s not the one they intended. Actually seeing these movies and becoming familiar with them gives you an opportunity to bring up what you believe in a casual non-defensive conversation. How can you combat something you know nothing about? You will undoubtedly come across uninformed and your opinion will be discarded. Get informed!!!
tizzle said
Agree with the premise of your arguement but i think the American Gangster reference is a bit far fetched. You could have used something else that was solely based on fiction and the perverse mind of a creative individual – not a movie – targeting adults and based on an entirely true story.
If not boycott every bio thats not on a “christian” – i.e. malcom x, queen elizabeth, ray charles, johnny cash…etc
Denton said
so now were sayin its wrong for people to try to make a living by making movies.. was America not founded to be a land of the free meaning eveyone should get their opinions and be able to share them however they want as long as they are peaceful?? AND America was founded this way *under* God but now its dishonest and sinful and what not to make a movie.
point blank you know your going to heaven if your a christian so why put other people down for them having their own beleifs? why is it wrong for them to think the way they do?
stop worrying about other people if they choose to be christians and not make a movie, watch a movie, pay 8.50 for a movie theyll do it on their own they should be able to make their own choices
Dustin said
Hallo,
I read this blog and completely agree with it. In the Bible, does Jesus state, “Go ye therefore and judge and condemn all ideas and beliefs?” Absolutely not, the Bible says to go ye therefore and preach and teach the Gospel. We must take this in consideration with the idea also of the two great commandments. What did Christ say they were? Love thy God and love thy neighbor. I’m a Christian, there are things I’m against, but I still work with and am friends with people who are anti-God, homosexuals, druggies, and alcoholics. Does this make me a sinner? Christ dined with the lost, and that’s our key. Instead of demanding people to follow an example that they don’t believe in or don’t understand, we need to love them. I can personally love any person regardless of any faults or flaws. Why? Because of the love of Christ. Instead of picketing this movie, we need to be on the inside and see what this person believes and what this movie portrays. We are the only Jesus that people in our life may ever see, and if we waste it on condemning people then nothing gets done and that’s why we are at where we are at.
We must love people and be there for them. We must guide them when things get rough because we are the Christ-figure. When we show the love of Christ no matter what, people start to see the real Christianity and not the hypocrisy it has become nowadays.
A Passerby said
Hello!
I also caught this post via facebook, a good way to get noticed for sure. Thank you for being bold and honest in sharing your insights. You are so right on! What the world needs is not more Christians but is for us to be more Christian, more Christ-like! Not meaning to judge at all, but though we are forgiven through Christ for all things, our actions do have consequences, and sadly, the poor actions of a few “christians” give us such a bad name that is all too often used as an automatic label, or association. Funny how non-Christians know how we should behave better than we do!!
Though I am honored and bold and proud to boast in Christ, that is mostly all there is to it, I am proud to be in Christ, not necessarily the labeled “Christian,” at least what the 21st century meaning of being a “Christian” has grown to become in Western countries, such as the United States.
Keep up the good work in your prophetic awareness and proclamations! (Prophetic meaning not future-predictions, the other meaning to it — discernment and confronting people right from wrong).
God bless you brother or sister.
Sincerely,
A sister
Morgan said
I appreciate this post as much as the first half. My comment applies to both equally, haha.
Thanks again,
Morgan
Ryan Russell said
I too plan on going to this movie…for the same reasons you are. I want to know what I am up against. I honestly think that by Christians taking a stand on this movie….more people are going to go to it. They’ll want to know what all the hype is about. After seeing it…I am thinking about taking my youth group to see it and talking about it after…even have them invite their friends. I think we need to look at this as an opportunity, not to bash pagans, but to teach and open conversation with them. If you’re in NC when it comes out, we can go see it together.
Ryan
Carl said
I saw your post on facebook and I found it rather relieving that someone has finally stepped off of their religious high horse long enough to realize that there is more to Christianity than what the bible feeds you. I agree, that if you see this movie and you have no intention on becoming atheist you will only obtain a larger world scope of what others think, and then you can cross apply that to your own beliefs and strengthen your message. It seems only logical to me that more people should be aware of what happens in the world, rather than living in their protective crib never exposing themselves to anything that may upset or challenge our own belief system.
Seo said
When I read this series, I did not know that it would result in the demise of God. The reason I got hooked, however, was not the theme that became apparent in book two, abolishing the Church, but because of the strong theme of friendship that Lyra shares with the rest of the characters. It has been said that this movie is meant to lure in unsuspecting parents who will, in turn, give the books to their children- if you educate your children about God as should be done, there should be no confusion whatsoever. God’s character is clearly defined in the Bible, and Pullman’s interpretation of God is nowhere near the truth laid out in Scripture. If your child cannot grasp this, there is a much larger problem in your life than worrying about an atheist author and his book series.
This movie (and book series) is a useful tool for seeing into the mind of an atheist and could prepare you for the sorts of questions that might be asked of you in the future.
Ethan Samuel Rodgers said
I’m pretty much all with you on this. I actually am interested in seeins the movie to get a better feel for what is going on here. I recently began a group stating some information on the film, to try and warn people about the upcoming film and make sure they wouldnt be incredibly angry when they left the theater. I got alot of flak, needless to say, but others are very thankful that they’ve had the chance to see and research the film. It gives articles and what not on the subject. I realize that someone who is immersed in Truth can be able to see this movie without an affect. The fact that many college students are reaking out about the film is a little much, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. One of the biggest reasons i don’t want to see this film is the fact that it simply doesn’t look that interesting to me…neither did Harry potter, nor did Eragon, etc. But the biggest thing that wories me is the children, the young ones, who are impressionable, who have parents that don’t explain everything out to them and make sure they don’t get caught in something that is secular simply because no one takes the time to tell them the origins. Let’s be honest, kids rarely stray from what their parents tell them, and what the beliefs are of people they adore (sports figures, comic book heroes, whatever the case may be). Subliminally, this is dangerous in a film like this, and above all else, above th fact that the film is about “God dying”, above it’s criticism of the church, above it’s twisting of the view of angels, that they are minions of a tyrant (btw, i read the chapter by chapter summaries so i already have an idea about what is going on in the series), the thing that worries me the most is the underlying effect it could possibly have on the young and impressionable. So if you boycott, that is your decision, and i respect it, but maybe it is more important to teach someone the truth about Christianity, especially the younger ones, and point out the fallacies in the movie, to help elaborate who our God REALLY is. Thanks for listening, if you happen to read this.
E
Brandon said
First off it is very encouraging to see a healthy post discussing the concern for this movie. Secondly, I understand the concern many parents have to guard their children’s eyes from things that may harm them, but in reality, their day to day encounter with our world is more powerful and influential then a movie they watch one Friday night. When looking through a broad scope, this is somewhat a controlled environment that a parent could use to their advantage in gaining understanding with their child. So I see no harm in allowing anyone, Christian or non-Christian , to see this movie. This movie may give some understanding to the world around us but most-likely wont have that much affect on our actions. I believe a bigger battle is being fought with our youth and it doesn’t necessarily take place in the movie theaters.
kevin said
I do not see what the paranoia is all about either. i agree that people can use this to teach more about god, the Jewish god, the Islam god and the Christian god. Are other religious churches angry about this? And the fact that its targeted toward children, i don’t see why that is so bad either. Is that not what missionaries do? Try and convert people from one religion to another. He is writing a “religious” book. The children should have freedom of choice of what to follow. Lay each religion or lack of objectively in front of a child and see which one speaks to him. Let he or she choose. I am all for freedom of thought but why is it the Christians try to suppress things that don’t agree with their beliefs? If a religious man reads the book and becomes non religious, then that means he was never really religious. If all it takes is a book to denounce the church then why aren’t people denouncing it more and more? I just do not understand how a book can be so harmful to kids who would otherwise be growing up in religious households. Does ever Christian child that reads the book become atheist? And any religious child that reads it and becomes atheist would really make me question how he was going to be religious for the rest of his life. And I saw American Gangster, I thought this movie based on a true story sent a powerful image. The nudity had a point and the sex scenes were very short but demonstrated qualities of characters. The F word, I’m only guessing here, was probably used extensively by New York gangsters in the sixties and seventies. And the violence was realistic but it really wasn’t over the top with blood squirting everywhere and stuff life that. I do agree however when it’s used without purpose. Like the Saw series, it’s just a bunch of torture scenes to get stimulate the morbid curiosity in people. Or movies like some of the American Pie or other teen movies where they put sex and nudity just to appease the lust of a lustful age group. I think those movies are totally inappropriate if you try to glorify god. I am not an expert in anything and I would love if you could convince me otherwise on anything. These observations seem to make the most sense to me. Thanks
Denise said
I also found this through Facebook, and I do agree. As adults, we shouldn’t let our faith be swayed by one simple movie. And parents should be ready and willing to help their children understand the context of a movie and know the difference between fiction and reality. Obviously, that doesn’t mean taking your kid to an R-rated movie – but it does mean explaining things like “You can’t jump off a building like in the movie and still survive.” Same goes with faith.
I’ve found that in a lot of movies that are secular, you CAN find a Christian message whether the writers and producers intended it or not. I used to have a pastor who loved movies and would play clips and then put it in a Christian perspective – and I’d be amazed and the lessons you can learn from movies and how you can apply it to your life as a Christian.
At the very least, I agree with you and many of the other people who have already posted here. It’s best to be informed – whether you see the movie or read the books – rather than live in a Christian bubble where you can’t relate to people in today’s world. We aren’t of this world, but we can’t forget that we live IN it.
bret said
Before I start i need to apologize for two thing: if my tone seems like I would be yelling… sorry
and if i spell thing wrong (not my best subject)
I’m just wandering why you are targeting “American Gangster” (I have not seen it, does it have some underlying meaning about religion? or did you just pick a random movie with bad language?). Is it really all that bad or do the critics just make it seem that bad (in your blog you never mentioned if you have seen it, only what the critics say), because personally, I would rather watch a movie with curse words than a movie ultimately bashing God. Curse words will get the children in more trouble at the time, but atheism will get them in much more trouble down the road. I would not want my children to watch a movie about atheism (especially young children, they are so easily molded).
Although I think you stated an excellent point in your blog, I disagree and feel that we should not support this man’s cause to spread the word of atheism in our society. If you really believe in Christ, you do not need to see this movie to help you defend your beliefs.
Again, sorry if I went on a rampage, it was not my intention. Also I would really like for you to message back.
Shauna said
I have to disagree. Though I appreciate your approach on being informed about what your agaisnt. I have to say that the anti-God theme is more detrimental to children than what you would find in American Gangster. The Golden Compass specifically targets children viewers where as American Gangster does not. Hopefully, you would not be taking your child to American Gangster and those who go are old enough to know the difference between T.V., movies and reality. Someome said in a comment that they read the book with the mindset of it being fiction, the danger here is that most kids will not. They will see this “water-downed” version of the trilogy and then beg for the books at Christmas (an ironic and probably planned time frame). You cannot expect that everyone knows of the issue involved with The Golden Compass movie. Parents and others will unknowingly (without informing their children and discussing with them why the books are FICTION) allow them to read the trilogy after seeing the movie. Also, the author’s intent IS for these views to not be thought of as fiction but to PERSUADE you, in his very notably talented prose, that there is depth and truth to what he says. Never underestimate the power of a talented writer on the minds of young impressionalble children and teens. In fact, we can be persuaded at any age. You write of not boycotting because we need to be informed of what we are boycotting against. Shall only adults see this movie then? Because children, though surprisingly bright, will mostly not understnad fully what is going on. Can we ask children to make such decisions at their age? No, it is our responsibility. I would say yes, maybe, adults go to the movie and see for yourself, even read the books. So you ask a child to see a thrilling and exciting fantastical movie and then, in turn, deny them a surely further thrilling read of the books? You of course say no and don’t let them read the books…or do you give in and make sure to again further explain that this is FICTION, and to not get wrapped up in it, there is no truth in it. What an ordeal! There are plenty of other movies that they can see and books that go along with them that are just as enthralling, why go through that? In reference to the Divinci Code I have a perfect example to show how people will still get sucked in to the outragoues though entertaing lies. I was sitting at a resturant and behind me I heard this young girl talking with her friend about how the Divinci Code reveals all these conspiracies that were covered up by the Church etc. She Spoke like she believed what the movie was telling her! This is the danger. Its very real. We cannot assume that people are as well informed on an issue as we are, or that they have had the strong background of faith. Christianity and the Catholic Church especially have been taking many blows by the media, Hollywood, etc. Every little bit, like this movie that will lead to the books, counts in the fight to bring down organized religon
(and more importantly God). The U.S. is one of the few countries left that still hold onto God and religon in our daily lives, at work, in school, aywhere. Europe, because of the many attacks overtime against religon have made them godless countries. At the end of the day, is that truly what we want to happen to us? It may seem silly but we must stand firm against attacks in the form of movies and books too, because we all go to the movies.
Bethany Osborn said
I agree totally that we should be prepared to talk about the movie and really know why we are not supporting it. My suggestion is go to the library read the books. This way you will know what you’re talking about and you have not supported anyone with your money, except perhaps your local library. I have read the books, by the way, and was absolutely shocked by what I read. As for why Christians have not thrown a huge fit about “American Gangster”…perhaps we’re smart enough to read the rating system and assume that others are too.
Renee said
I entirely disagree with you. Though, I will be fair and say that I understand your concept. It is good for us to have knowledge before we stick our noses in business, but if every Christian had that mindset, we would not be spending a measely $8.50. Instead, we would be coming together as a nation to support something that promotes destroying what we are founded upon. Remember “One Nation Under God” Is it ok that schools aren’t allowing our children to say this anymore? I openly state I am not prejudice and understand we are all different with different beliefs. Consider, though, that we ARE one nation under God and I think it is blasphemy to come together and spend millions of dollars on over priced popcorn and tickets to get educated on the matter. They don’t know we are attending only to educate ourselves; they are doing a dance because they made millions off of fooling a bunch of Christians. If you want to educate yourself, read the book from the public library. Its free, so you aren’t supporting any of this rubbish. Then you can say, “no, I didn’t see the movie because its based off the book. I read that book and I don’t support it.” Also, you said that there are worse movies than anti-God movies. No, No, No! There is no such thing! “Thou Shall NOT Take the Lord in Vain” I don’t care how you look at it, that’s what an anit-God movie is doing. I understand the ideas behind your statement. Paying $8.50 to view pornography and otherwise is as much our sin as those who created those films. We have a wonderful God who forgives our sins if we truly ask it of him. He will, in fact, forgive the author of this book if it is asked of him. It just isn’t a matter of going to a porno vs. a kid’s film. That isn’t fair of you to wrap it up like that. The fact is, you cannot convince me there are worse movies than one that deliberately tries to trick and brain-wash the children of our future. IT IS NOT OK!!!!
Wesley said
One thing to consider… if a film can influence you so much, then why go see one? At all? If movies can really cause you to completely denounce and redevelop your beliefs, then please don’t see ANY films. If that happens to a child, then it probably won’t be a very lasting affect now will it, because if you know children, they are fickle, but very bright, and eventually, they become adults (hopefully). Now a movie lasts a short while and will end abruptly, and once it is finished, then it’s back into a life that will either be full of darkness or filled with light. Those surrounding that child are what bring that TRUE darkness and TRUE light into their lives. The people, the ones helping make the choices. The Fiction is neither the good nor the evil here. It may contain symbols and suggestions of what these are, but ultimately, a story is a story. It was the faith of the children that Jesus commended in the scriptures. If that is so, then why are the parents, the ones directly above them, trying so furiously to influence it? Parents are the directors of their children, under God, they are the authority. But the faith of a child is the responsibility of that child, and the Lord will do his part, as well, of wooing that child to Him. Being careful of what you allow going before a child’s eyes is only something you are able to control for a very short period. Be sure that you help them answer the questions they really have while you still can. It may not be long before they don’t consider their father or mother’s wishes or ideas very much, no matter what movies they end up seeing. In the end, the only delineation that needs to be made here is; what is really real? If in a fictional story “god” is killed, then what does that mean for our reality? Does that make God dead? No, it makes us able to consider it more intimately with a much deeper consequence than we might have expected, and we can be thankful that in reality, our God, who is much BIGGER than opening day during the Holiday season, will be able to sort out the Faith of His beloved Children all on his own. Thanks for reading.
Alex said
Im surprised that the overwhelming majority of people leaving posts here are so easily tempted to say that seeing this movie is ok and are so eager to see it?
Do you think that militant hard minded atheists (like pullman himself) would take the same approach??? Would they gladly and willingly go to see the Passion or read the Bible in full??? Of course not!!! They hate us, and their ultimate aim is to destroy our faith.
I have to admit, that in some respects the controversy does make the movie appealing and I can understand why a lot of people would be interested in seeing it. This movie, I believe is a temptation… much like satan offered Christ power over all kingdoms on earth, with this movie, Satan is tempting all Christians to obtain a glimpse of his side of the abyss…the only problem is that a lot of unsuspecting souls will fall in and find it hard to get out…
I honestly do pray that Christians will have the strength to fight this horrible lie which is about to be fed to millions unprotected innocent minds all over the world… Christians can’t just sit by and watch as our beliefs are trampled upon
samantha said
i didn’t even have to finish reading your blog to know what i think. i totally think you’re right, and even encouraged my parents to see the movie along with my 17 year old sister. you seem to have a good solid foundation in what you’re saying as well. sometimes christians will say, “i’m not seeing it because it’s bad” and be wrong. but sometimes they’ll say, “i AM seeing it because i can do whatever i want!” in essence they are using their “freedom in Christ” to justify anything they want. but you on the other hand are on the right page and are being rational and biblical at the same time. it’s a real refresher to know that i’m not the only one who thinks this way. keep on keepin on!
Ross said
Personally, I have 2 problems with both this and The DaVince Code.
1) While I really doubt it would somehow convince me to be an atheist, The Golden Compass isn’t targeted at me. It’s targeted at children, who are usually not as mature in their faith as you or I. Considering Mr. Pullman stated that his books are about killing God and is an atheist, I would not even think about presenting his material to a young child.
While it may be true that the anti-religious stuff may have been stripped out of the movie, it hasn’t been stripped out of the books. If children like the movie and their parents aren’t aware of the contents of the books, they may buy the books for their children, who could be more easily tricked into believing some of their content.
2) I don’t want my money to go to a work that is largely targeted at persuading children to be atheists, nor would I want my money to go to a work that is targeted at persuading adults to be atheists (in the case of The DaVince Code.) While I personally wouldn’t be challenged in my faith by reading either, I have no intentions of providing more funding for them to use to promote atheism. I realize that both are fictional, but fiction is often used to present subtle or even blatant messages. Jesus even used fictional stories (parables) occassionally to help His audience understand something. Also, while you and I may realize that The DaVince Code is fiction, there are people that actually have been convinced that it’s true. Again, I have no intentions of providing my money in support of such a work. I would much prefer that my money is instead supporting the spread of the gospel and helping others who are in need. The ideas presented by other posters of borrowing the books from a library seems like a much better option than providing more funding to people who are promoting anti-religious themes.
As for why Christians send out warnings for this sort of thing and not for stuff like American Gangster, I don’t think that a whole lot of Christians who are protesting this are just running out to see American Gangster or any other such film, either. It’s just that with The Golden Compass, it’s intent is probably not obvious to a Christian who has never heard of it before (such as myself,) whereas with movies like American Gangster, the content of it is pretty obvious and I highly doubt too many people would be tricked into taking their children to see it, letting their children see it with a friend, etc. While films with all sorts of sexual, violent, and drug-use content are usually pretty obvious, something like The Golden Compass can be (and, perhaps, is designed to be) more of a “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”
Megan said
To Chris who posted a reply on Nov. 19:
The Bible is not fiction meant to entertain. Do you realize that the books of the Bible were written at different times throughout history? That the Old Testiment is EXTREMELY prophetic, and that these prophecies have come to light in the order they were prophecied? These things that were prophecied occurred LITERALLY and accurately? I didn’t hear anything about Mohammad or Buddha rising from the dead, but Jesus did. I understand you don’t believe in God, or for that matter Heaven or hell. I think you’d be hard pressed to find evidence showing that God doesn’t exist. You charge us with believing in something we have no evidence to support; the truth is that we have plenty of evidence. I don’t believe you have any evidence proving that God doesn’t exist.
Also, your word for “conversion” is a bit out of context. Our faith requires that one believe on Jesus Christ as their Savior. Without this, you cannot enter Heaven. So the point is: those who don’t believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior go to hell as punishment for their sins. Christians don’t want their next door neighbor, their co-worker, or their friend to go to hell. God converts people, Christians don’t convert people (sorry if this sounded too much like a gun motto). Christians share their faith with an unbeliever, and God uses this to touch someone heart. The problem with this is that some Christians demand others believe, rather than letting God take control. So why do we share? Because those who don’t believe will go to hell.
Christians shouldn’t support a movie that is extremely blasphemous toward their Creator, Father, and Savior. I get what this blog is saying, and can’t really disagree with the argument. I just think that every Christian needs to get on their knees and ask God what their role in this should be. There are athiest and unbelievers all around us; shouldn’t we talk about their fate for eternity rather than getting in an uproar about this movie? American Gangster is an innaproppriate movie, and so is The Golden Compass.
In the conclusion of the Pullman’s series, the children kill God because they want to do as they please. Excuse me? I don’t think we only have to worry about children fantasizing about killing God, but over throwing authority all together. So do athiest not believe in authority at all, like policemen or parents? Can athiest tell their children what to do, because wouldn’t that prohibit them from doing what they want to? Maybe more children will fantasize about killing their parents after seeing this movie?
Maybe that argument is a little too far fetched, but I believe this movie is all around bad news.
Megan said
There are times I just want to ask other Christians, “Have you even read the Bible?”
Nora said
I think that a movie like “The Golden Compass,” which will challenge our beliefs, could open doors to a wide variety of faith-based discussions– especially with children, who are extremely receptive and often smarter than we give them credit for. Therefore, I disagree that children should not be allowed to see the movie. If we keep children cloistered and indoctrinate them with our personal beliefs, and only ours, they will never ask questions and they will never doubt. Questions and doubt are an essential part of building true faith!! By allowing children to experience the “rest of the world” and opening their minds to other belief systems, we will, in fact, bring them closer to Christ. Many of my most spiritual friends had very religious parents who allowed them to find their own way to Jesus and never forced religion or a belief system upon them.
Furthermore, there are plenty of fantasy-based “pro-God” childrens’ movies out there to compare “The Golden Compass” to. What about the Chronicles of Narnia? There’s a very obvious Christ metaphor in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe that even my 9-year-old brother picked up on after a first read of the book. His questions led to a family-wide discussion of faith and Christian beliefs. Couldn’t questions arising from “the Golden Compass” lead to similar kinds of discussions? Children should not be kept from learning and experiencing– that leads to a totalitarian, brain-washing approach to religion, which is not what Christ would have wanted.
And to whoever pointed out that the movie/books are FICTIONAL, awesome observation and a very valid point!
Jen said
i understand what your saying about how we should go see it, but i think the warnings are mainly so we dont have kids go see it!
Sandra said
Here’s a suggestion…if you don’t agree with it, don’t go see it. I am Jewish, and it is known that Mel Gibson is a racist and hates Jewish people, but I didn’t go protest when Passion of the Christ came out and I was completely offended by that movie. If Christians have a right to make movies that they want to make, then so should atheists and Jewish people and people of all faiths. That’s why this country was founded, for the freedom of religion. Atheists have a right to be here and make movies just like everyone else. So get over it.
Larry said
BTW this has nothing to do with suppression of speech I will die for your freedom to say what you believe so long as it done in a respectful and legal manner but this has nothing to do with suppression this is about clearly trying to mis-lead parents into thinking these books are harmful. Children are impressionable and parents have every right and duty to know what their children are being told. If the movie was honest that would be different… I still wouldn’t watch it but It wouldn’t be a big deal. Then again I have a problem with Harry Potter too… witch craft is real and making it look fun and non-threatening is dangerous! My aunt is a witch… no I’m not joking… parents need to be careful what they expose their kids too… kids will have plenty of time to look at other religions when they are older they don’t need to have to choose when the on;y criterion they know is witch movie they like better!
Larry said
Oh and as for the Devinchi code… I liked that movie because I know its fiction and I know the history of the story and its writing and everything that goes with it… I also like the myths about secret societies but I wouldn’t want uneducated or naive people to watch it especially children unless they where clear on the fact that it is not history it is a story it is fiction but even so it is a much less dangerous thing because the things said there are blatant not subversive and hidden… a simple fact check will clear that up… a little reading of history but dense stories with hidden ideas aimed at young children is different.
Kyle said
The fact that I disagree with you on nearly every point you made beside the main one is unimportant, you hold an important viewpoint. Intelligent, logical Christians are rare to find when it concerns their religion. People who are brilliant in other ares of their life tend to turn extremist and weird when concerns Christianity. I applaud you.
Shauna said
To Sandra,
This is not about calling into question if they can make this movie or not.
Shauna said
Its about protesting the message it sends to our children.
Also, how is it “known” that mel gibson is a racist and hates Jewish people? Through the hollywood media? the paparrazi? They are not a reliable resource and will spin anything to sell a picture or a story.
But more importantly, how did The Passion of the Christ offend you? I remember when it came out well, and how the were some who were calling the movie anti-semitic. How so?
And how does it compare to the Golden Compass movie and especially the books? The author has specifically stated in several interviews that his intent is too “kill God in the minds of children” (not just the Christian Jesus Christ, but God, The God that we all share and believe in)
In The Passion of the Christ the intent of the movie was to portray Jesus’ last days in a very graphic and real way. Where was this anti-semitic bashing…I did not walk away from the movie having remotely any thoughts like that. It was actually very hard to see my Lord go through his sacrifice and that was all I concentrated on, and how immense his love for me is. It was a reminder of his sacrifice for us.
Frankie said
ok I kinda disagree with you. Sure I think its cool to be informed and all, but this movie is setting a precedent. It is the first movie to really BASH a religion. Other movies support different religios views, but this one actually is trying to say that “these religions over here are wrong”.
Hopefully, by boycotting it it will not get as much money as expected, and the economists and money-people out there will say “Hey, movies that bash a religion dont make much money! Let’s not make anymore…”
Sandra said
This is all about fear. People are afraid that if another point of view is allowed to be put out there to the masses, that people may or may not begin to think outside the box. If this is all about messages, which it clearly isn’t, then let’s talk about messages. Passion was about Jesus, the supposed son of god, and how he died for our sins. That is a message which I find harmful because I don’t believe that he was the son of god. And no, not everyone does believe in a god at all so let’s not generalize. I was raised Jewish, but I lean toward agnosticism more and more everyday. Instead of being scared, parents should have the guts enough to say to their children, “Here is our point of view, but some people don’t believe in a god, and in a free country, that is their choice and there is nothing wrong with that. This is what we believe, but as an intelligent human being, we should be open to all forms of religion and learn about them. Then, we can decide for ourselves what we choose to believe.” That would be a mature, intelligent thing to say. Instead, people simply refuse to accept anything different than their own beliefs, which is extremely close-minded and prevents any kind of growth.
Sandra said
Furthermore, it isn’t god that is killed in the end, it is an angel. An angel in a fantasy universe that doesn’t exist because it’s a fantasy book. The angel isn’t god, but is evil and wants to force it’s will upon all people. Hmmmm, now who do we know who could be an fallen, evil angel and wants to force mankind to do his will? Oh, yeah, satan. Finally, the messages of Pullman are offensive to some because he hates religion and wants to do away with god. Now, not all atheists believe that. Many atheists are people who simply don’t believe in a higher power but they go about their daily lives minding their own business. If people boycott this movie on principles, shouldn’t you be boycotting all things produced by atheists who share Pullman’s views? James D. Watson, the man who discovered the structure of DNA was an atheist. Should we get rid of our flesh and try to rid ourselves of his evil? Thomas Edison, inventor of the light bulb, was an atheist. If you’re boycotting a movie based on its messages and ideas, you should probably get rid of all the lighting in your homes because Thomas Edison was an atheist and may or may not have wanted to do away with religion entirely. Alan Turing, inventor of the computer, was an atheist. Maybe he too, wanted to do away with god. Shouldn’t people stop using their computers then? The man who gave you and me the chance to sit here and voice our opinions was an atheist. Every time you use your computer, you’re supporting the products of an atheist. Those little microchips that are inside computers and microwaves were created by an atheist. I’m simply suggesting that if people boycott a movie because the author is an atheist and has immoral thoughts and messages, then people should boycott everything that is associated with atheists and their messages because that would truly be a way to make sure you are not supporting atheists. Now, after thinking about it, doesn’t that seem rather silly?
Germaine said
errm…I cudnt really be bothered to go through all the responses to see if anyone had mentioned this…
but seeing that u “asked”, Peter is the one who said ‘But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear’ (i like KJV
(1 Peter 3:15)
1 Love 1 God 1 Way
Bob said
Your approach at this whole ordeal is much more level-headed than the boycotters who i have been furiously combating on facebook. I think that your angle is very respectable and that you are going about all this the right way. I personaly have read the book while i was 12 and found no anti-god connotations but rather a story about maturity and loss of innocence in a metaphor that parallels the story of adam and eve. Becuase of this i am vastly confident that if you do go see it with an open mind you clearly see how outrageous these claims of “atheist propagand” are blaintantly false. I wish more people of strong faith would lean more twords your style, that would help to give organized religion a better rap.
Hallie said
absolutely. i agree one hundred percent.
thank you so much for posting this, my mother
has been harping on and on about how we
need to tell people to see it, but i want to
see it, to prepare myself with what it contains
in order to make myself delve deeper into
scriptures proving it false.
Doug said
i’m commenting on this post by Brandon:
Brandon Says:
November 19, 2007 at 1:48 am
why do people hate this movie so much? Because it conflicts with their beleifs? isn’t everyone entitled to their own personal beleifs? If you don’t agree with it, don’t go see it, don’t boycott it, if the only criticism you can come up with is that you don’t agree with the idea, than go to church instead of boycotting it.
My first response is this: yes, everyone IS entitled to their own beliefs.
Second – It is true that many people hate this movie because it conflcts with their beliefs, however, I’d like to point out something. The snippy, arrogant tone in your comment indicates that you hold a certain amount of disdain or contempt for those who hate this movie. Also, in your last sentence, through a condescending, sarcastic tone, you show a particular hatred for people who go to church. Now, I assume that you do not go to church, meaning that you have different views from people who do go to church. So essentially, you’re hating on people who have different views from you, and in doing so, you do exactly what you’re telling them not to do. Hmmmmmm…..
Also, I’ve seen at last one post by an atheist asking for concrete evidence of God’s existence. Since I doubt it would be appreciate if I posted that evidence here (it would take up a few dozen pages, at least), I will simply recommend a book, “The Case for A Creator” by Lee Strobel. Lee Strobel is an investigative journalist who used to be an atheist. Then his atheist wife became a Christian and he set out to prove her wrong, but because of what he turned up in his research, he became a Christian, as well.
nate said
I don’t think there is anything that can be really gained by watching a movie like this. The Da Vinci Code at least challenged us to sift through what the bible said and counter reference it with the movie. All this movie is gonna say is God is mean and He’s a phony. i don’t need to watch that or support it to learn anything about the opposing view. I can read the Bible and know the Almighty God Who is love.
designerex81 said
if we are attempting the legitimize this movie/books then we christians should not participate in it in any way. typically legitimizing means our conscience and the spirit of God within us is telling us that it’s wrong. God calls us to be an extraordinary people which means that we need to be in the world be not of it. don’t freak out and think i’m going all extreme here. it’s just that movies/books that have sexual/violent/vulgar/and just down right in inappropriate (which includes God-killing and sacrilegious) themes make us lukewarm. you must understand these things DO NOT honor God. God wants us to honor Him in everything that we do and no matter our intentions, participating in things that are obviously dishonoring God, is wrong. this movie, lies in the grey/lukewarm area. we must be black or white, hot or cold. if you are lukewarm God will spit you out of His mouth. check out what the Bible says about the church of laodicea in revelation 3:14–18. observe for yourself…are you lukewarm?
sportsfan said
I was wondering if you could email me some tips also on ways to try and convert atheists in a non-oppressive way.
Rob said
I have a question, which might have been answered before, I just skimmed over the posts. I just got done reading the trilogy, and I thought it was a pretty good fantasy. I am a Christian, but I don’t see how God was “killed”? unless the guy that Lyra’s parents killed was “God”? Sorry for the questions, but as the writer of the blog said, better to be prepared than not. If i had a kid and they wanted to go see it, I’d go with em & explain that it’s a movie made off a fantasy book and that humans cant kill God.
But i’m also one of the Harry Potter fans, along with my dad.
Just remember, it’s called FANTASY for a reason.
Karen said
I for one am an atheist. I read His Dark Materials series at a young age, but never personally saw the connection between the killing of a godlike creature in a fantasy book as killing the christian god that we hear so much conflict about today. And I don’t think children will have much trouble either, unless it’s their PARENTS that are making such a big deal about the entire thing. As a child I could plainly understand that it was FANTASY, not real, and that it was obviously in a different, parallel universe to our own. Any parent who is struggling with how to approach this book with regard to their children should just explain that it’s NOT our world that the book is about. Is it so hard to contemplate another reality where things are different than they are here? For a child whose imagination hasn’t be spoiled by reality, I don’t think it’s a stretch.
I’m glad to see you’ll watch the movie for the sheer reason that you want to know what REALLY happens in it, whether to defend your own views or for enjoyment. I hope that what you find is a fascinating world where god and religion are separate from our own world… (that’s where the subtle knife comes in) and see the story for what it is – a girl overcoming enormous obstacles to finally get what she wants and become who she wants to be.
Les McDonald said
I can’t judge it until I see it. And yes> I am a christian…..or trying to be a good one through my good will…..but heck dude seriously.Christians are makin a big deal about this movie..but I say let them make the movie.It’s not our job to police to world.And that is the problem with Christians today.Too busy policing others rather than themselves.
Les McDonald said
And besides that, IF YOU love God ..* i know I do* then you’ll love him regardless of a stupid movie. GOD is in Control. HE’ll handle whoever betrays him.
Clark said
I totally agree with you about the part with us warning about this movie but we cannot warn about a rated R movie! I need to get better about checking the content of movies before i go see them bc some pg 13 movies are bad!
william said
I find myself in disagreement with many of the posters on this forum in that, while a devout Christian, I actually greatly enjoyed Philip Pullman’s books when I read them. With that said, a core argument that both apostlepd and subsequent posters are making is that seeing a movie in which god dies will destroy the faith of the viewer. In an adult viewer, this argument is ridiculous; if anyone’s faith is so weak that watching a movie can substantially damage it, than they have no faith, and are better having so hollow a remnant discarded so they can begin anew in finding God.
In the case of young children, perhaps there could be a degree of influence here,but more positive than negative. This movie (or more accuratly the third movie that will presumable come out in a few years) does what so many other media outlets are terrified to do: it mentions God. That alone is a good thing, because you can then begin a conversation with your child about the topics in the movie without being preachy. It would not be at all difficult to point out the ways in which the God and Angels in the books/movies are different from those depicted in the bible, and to further the exploration of God and his works from there.
As for the problem of ‘killing’ God, most children will have no trouble understanding that this is a fantasy world with different rules and norms (I say this as one who was a young teenager when I first read them) and even for children more impressionable, surely a lifetime of honest and Christian upbringing is more than sufficient to counter one fantasy depiction of a God completely unrelated to our own?
With that said, kudos to apostlepd, both for his reasonable and logical argument, and for starting what seems has become a very fruitful discussion of a very passionate topic. I sincerely hope that everyone looking into this movie goes and sees it, both for what I hope will be an engaging story, and for ideas on how to use themes and images like these to further our children’s understanding of God.
Becky M said
Hey,
Saw your link on facebook and decided to read this. I’m glad you share my opinion on this matter. Another argument against boycotting, in my opinion, is this: If we say it isn’t right for an atheist to make a movie about killing God, or write books about it, it’s jsut as easy for others to say it isn’t right for Christians to make movies either. You can’t take away one person’s freedom of publication without endangering your own.
It’s the same with Harry Potter. Ban Harry Potter? Well then you need to ban every fairy tale and folk story out there too. There’s subtle magic in all of them as well.
It’s only as I got older that I realized how strong a connection Pullman was drawing between Mrs. Coulter’s “church” and the Christian church as a whole, and how all of his beliefs influenced the story. It’s over your average 9-12 year old’s head I’m pretty sure.
There are so many other themes throughout the book that people could focus on (friendship, courage, loyalty, trust, growing up, etc.) besides this. It’s a fictional story, set in a world different enough from our own that kids should understand it’s not ours.
Christians need to stop trying to keep others from expressing their views. Instead, I really think it would be more effective for them to go see a “controversial” movie or read the books. It will help them better understand where opposing views are coming from, and perhaps stem some interesting discussion.
Sandra said
This is a direct quote from Pullman, and if you think about it, you’ll realize that he’s right.
“In the world of the story — Lyra’s world — there is a church that has acquired great political power, rather in the way that some religions in our world have done at various times, and still do (think of the Taliban in Afghanistan). My point is that religion is at its best — it does most good — when it is farthest away from political power, and that when it gets hold of the power to (for example) send armies to war or to condemn people to death, or to rule every aspect of our lives, it rapidly goes bad. Sometimes people think that if something is done in the name of faith or religion, it must be good. Unfortunately, that isn’t true; some things done in the name of religion are very bad. That was what I was trying to describe in my story.”–TODAY updated 11:22 a.m. CT, Fri., Nov. 2, 2007
It’s true. Not everything done in the name of religion is necessarily good. I also agree with him that organized religion is at its best when it is far from political power. No organized religion is free from controversy, so take a look at the history of your own church, whatever church that may be, and I’ll bet you’ll find some very interesting things.
Sandra said
Also note, that was a response to a question from a child, and if he had any opportunity to bash religion and turn this child against god, that would have been the time to do it.
Daniel said
Personally, I do not think that I would have a problem seeing this movie, so that I could be prepared to talk to others about it and lead them closer to Christ. Obviously, some people feel differently about this and have different convictions. Some feel that it is good for them to stay away from all evil, even at the cost of not being able to minister to a nonbeliever who had seen the film. I would like to point to a very important piece of scripture that is often overlooked and because it is overlooked causes a lot of controversy (ex. this movie)
Romans 14
The Weak and the Strong
1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:
” ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’ “[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Sorry this is long but I personally cannot cover my bases any better than Paul here. I think that everyone should follow this scripture and move on their conviction concerning this movie. If they cause more division by stirring up protests it just makes us Christians look like bickering hypocrites to the outside world who we are trying to lead to Christ. And who wants to follow a group of bickering hypocrites? I sure wouldnt…
Jessica said
Excellent points! I wish more people would think this way. When the Da Vinci Code came out, my pastor sent a petition around the church during the service to have it removed from the local theater. I was SO put off by this. Things like that are why non-Christians have such negative opinions of us.
samantha said
of all the people to direct this movie to, why does this author direct it to children? and american gangster has no hidden meaning, so if you can’t see that it is a bad movie, it’s not my fault for not warning you, because look at the rating! and just listen to the name! the movie the golden compass has a hidden meaning, and its directed torwards young children, no matter how many times and ways we look at this movie, the fact is, and never is gonna change, that it is about killing god, and it says in the bible tolerance is a sin, and to tolerate to see such a movie, is the same thing as if you denied god. the author of the book will have to answer for this one day. so comparing a so called ‘child’s movie’ to an adult movie, isn’t gonna make it anymore right or wrong, or hide the fact that, IT IS A CHILDREN’S MOVIE ABOUT KILLING GOD.
Sandra said
It isn’t about killing god….how many times must people say that? The children don’t kill god, they kill a fallen angel who is evil and who has been posing as god. Those are very different things.
Ty said
Great blog!
If only Christian America could step down from its pedestal of self-righteous gay-hating and finger-pointing, then perhaps some people could truly be led to Christ.
Ed said
I haven’t read all the comments made above, only your article. The e-mails I received on the movie said the movie itself was going to be rather benign, but it would encourage kids to want the set of books, and that was where all the problems would be. It also said the author hates C.S. Lewis and “The Chronicles of Narnia.” I didn’t check all that out to see if it was true. But if it is, then there is a problem for the kids that the movie apparently is directed at. It is directed at kids, right? Not all parents have computer access to get these warnings or to check it all out to make an informed decision. So, after the movie, when the kids find out there are books about it, the parents will run out and buy them for Christmas. Then the kids get to be influenced by the anti-God stuff within, maybe without the parents ever even knowing it, unless they read the books. Plus, spending even more money on this garbage. Wow. How dumb can we be?
And why are adults so into fantasy anyway?
Brett said
I used to be a Protestant, but now i guess you could call me an atheist or an agnostic or whatever. To be truly honest, I don’t care if you’re Christian or not, you can protest whatever you want because, well, we live in America where you can do that kind of thing. But, just because you can protest doesn’t mean that you have to. I mean come on, I’m probably the first person who would protest something because I thought it wasn’t right, but the way that the Christian community is going about this “… this or that film to hell and whoever goes to see it!” thing is just the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Just look at “The Life of Brian”, the church blacklisted that movie and yet it has nothing to do with attacking the church. In fact, at the beginning of the movie when the wise men go to the wrong place, Monty Python (the comedy troupe that made that movie) explained away that the character Brian was not Christ. And later, a BBC poll was taken and the “What have the Romans ever done for us?” scene was voted the funniest movie scene in British movie history. And for this film, how can you say that this film is “attacking the church” when the Archbishop of Canterbury approves of it? As for this article, I totally agree with it. Bravo!
…
And now a question for the author or anyone else that would like a shot at me for this, why is tolerance a sin? Just because some book says that it’s “bad” does that mean it really is? If it weren’t for tolerance, then everyone on Earth would be dead. And now I’m interested on what you think so fire away.
note: This is not meant to attack anyone’s beliefs and I have read the Bible.
Brett said
Oh! And another thing, why on Earth would you boycott American Gangster? It’s a movie about a non-fiction movie. Come on! I once watched a movie about Hitler and I didn’t turn into some crazy Neo-Nazi white supremacist. Just because a movie is about a person that sees differently than you doesn’t mean that it is the MOST EVIL MOVIE IN THE WORLD!!!!!…and I’m a Denzel Washington fan. He’s probably one of the most sound minds in show business today. How could you do that to him?!?
Melissa said
To Samantha above:
where does it say that? and does it imply that we shouldn’t love them, because I think that Jesus Christ’s message was to love everyone, especially the sinners. Although sometimes I find it harder to love Christians lately…I am working on this, we are held to a higher standard, but not told to hold non-Christians to this standard. LOVE, LOVE, Love….this movie is just a movie, if you don’t want to see it, don’t (I am not) but do not make me (a Christian) look like an idiot and once again live up to that title by playing the us against them game…it is disgraceful and really hurts me…we need to love them.
Jesse S said
I most certainly agree with what you have said. My only reservation is that in our zeal to “give an answer to everyone who asks of the hope in us,” we must not pollute our minds with needless garbage. Nevertheless, good viewpoint and I agree wholeheartedly. Especially with the point of the violence and gore. I really am of the opinion that if we, as Christians, spend time boycotting the filth that is churned from Hollywood, we could do some damage, ultimately, for the betterment of the media. The sheer numbers, after all, of the professing Christians is quite formidable.
Melissa said
Here are some comments that non-christians wrote on a wall in a group for non-christians. This is what they said about the whole Golden Compass boycott:
“hey I don’t know if anyone else has seen this, but there is a group or 2 on facebook that are bashing that movie the golden compace, or something like that, saying that it is tricking christians into becoming athiests, saying that in the movie, and books they kill god, or some … like that and that people should ban it from theaters, homes, etc. These groups sound so … stupid, how can a movie trick kids into changing their religion(Christian propaganda if you ask me). Just wanted to know what y’all think about this stupid …?”
“Tristan, I saw those groups. The Golden Compass is an excellent work of fiction, much like the bible. The Golden Compass will not turn a Christian away from God any more than I turn away from reason after reading the bible. It’s just silly to think otherwise.
Hell, they said the same kind of stuff about Harry Potter. I hate the … books but my 3 closest Christian friends are obsessed. They haven’t converted to the church of satan yet. I think all the Christians are safe, and they should get a life.”
this is what they have said about Christians:
“it is the christian “non humans” movement who raped/s the land of nature and people in other countries…but it was all in the name of “god” –look at those countries now. those people are poor and dying because they are not able to keep up with capatilist machine. western cultures/religion sucked everything out of the land that they sooo were not a part of in the first place. look at the non humans now, in the rain forest trying to save their precious precursors of pharmeceuticals so they can make money. while the REAL humans who were born of that earth, are slowly pushed, intimidated, assaulted, evetually killed for defending their rights to their own natural birthplace, up against guns and bulldozers. GREEDY GREEDY EVIL NON HUMANS… can’t you let your own troubles trouble just yourselves for once? all these beliefs don’t benefit anyone, it doesn’t change the truth, that many millions have suffered deeply and it was purely unjust. STOP! the greedy guts from eating everything!”
“hahaha I’m sry but I refuses to give Christ a chance, without christianity, soooo many wars, arguments, hate groups, etc. could have been avoided, plus sooo many christians are sooooo stupid”
“christians are all a bunch of cancerous fools! them and all the other monotheistic believers are the terrorists and fascists of this world. may they all destroy each other with their hypocritical stupidity and go to their own hells!”
“Just thought I’d share with you something that’s always bugged me about my Christian friends.
Whenever I’ve asked them their opinion on something like war, gays, or abortion in specific scenarios (like ‘well is it ok to have an abortion if your own life is at stake? it’s considered ok to fight in a war or kill an intruder in your home to protect yourself’) or whatever it is… they always tell me something like “I’m not sure. I’ve never thought if it that way. Let me go ask my youth pastor. Or let me go look in my bible.”
???? You have to consult your youth pastor or bible just to develop an opinion on a certain situation?? WTF!”
Just a little taste of what they say.
Lisa M said
[Post left through email:]
Author: Lisa M.
I’ve read all three books, and I have to agree with you (Paul Davis). Yes, it may have been meant to paint a picture of atheism but as a Christian, you can use this to strengthen your faith. The “god” envisioned by Pullman is absolutely nothing like the God I know and serve. Pullman’s “authority” is a cruel, surreptitious, usurper that meshes more with my view of Satan than my view of God. Also, Pullman describes a church that reminds me of the church in Luther’s time – men concerned with power for themselves- only Pullman’s vision is extremely worse. As a Christian, I’D be against the church that Pullman envisions.
Several places in this book left me filled with such despair for the characters because of the religious themes. Pullman paints a world with no true “authority” (merely the leader of another race of higher beings), no heaven or hell (only a vast underground holding tank where voices become whispers, and beings are attacked by harpies). It was at these points in the books that I could rejoice in the fact that I have a wonderful God, and therein lies my hope for the future. The stark contrast to my reality made me appreciate it more completely.
The main thing is information. If you want to see it, or read it, you should go in knowing the picture that will be painted. If you know a child who may be interested in reading it, go over some of the more “murky” parts with them. It is important for us, and the children we know, to understand that the God we serve (or the church we attend and believe in), is not like the God or the church Pullman describes. We, as Christians, should use this as a tool.
(I also am thoroughly disgusted with the way sex, violence, and language have infiltrated the movies we watch- and how the Christian community is seemingly more concerned with the evils of fantasy than getting the filth out of all the other genres.)
April said
I think the warning is more for parents. It is important for parents to not let thier children watch movies like these because they are impressionable and cannot yet fully discern right and wrong, truth and ficiton for themselves.
Johnny said
To be honest, I’m feeling a little convicted, because I actually saw American Gangster with my friends from church, and majorly regret it. Not just because of all the explicit content, but it was also REALLY boring. I agree with going to see the movie, I won’t be there on opening night; I rarely am when it comes to most movies, but I do plan to see it eventually. We as Christians need to not linger in the light, but bring light into the darkness. Now this idea is probably not as logical for all Christians, as some may still not want to see the movie and there’s really nothing terribly wrong with that choice.
Thmpa said
After reading most of this blog last night, I went to His Word for answer: boycott or go so that I can discuss this knowledgeably? Granted, I read the books in middle school, before I knew what they were. When I finished them and figured out what happens, our librarian pulled them from the shelf.
Anyway, here’s what I found:
1 Cor 6:12-
“Everything is permissible for me”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”—but I will not be mastered by anything.
Maybe I can go to this movie without hurting my faith. But will it help my faith? I don’t think so.
1 Cor 10:24-
Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
Can I seek the good of others with the know;edge I gain from watching the movie? We’ll see.
1 Cor 10:31-32-
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. (32) Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God…
If I go to this movie, and people know I’m a Christian, and they see me supporting the movie, that is a stumbling block to their faith. “Oh, he’s supporting the Golden Compass? It must be alright then.” But it’s not – and even if I’m not supporting the movie, that is the message I send.
1 Cor 11:1
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
As has been said, Christ did not participate in orgies so that he could save the people who were there. He showed people love, but he never participated in their sin.
1 Cor 8:1
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
Here’s the answer to whether or not I can seek the good of other by watching this movie. If I act out of love in discussion, and stand on the Word of God, I’ll be just fine.
1 Cor 8:9-12-
Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak…
1 Timothy 6:20-21
Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, (21) which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.
2 Timothy 2:22-26 also gives instructions to stay clear of “foolish and stupid arguments,” and to “gently instruct” those who oppose [Timothy].
I do not have to see this movie to gently instruct. I do not need this knowledge; I need only love and the Word of God.
Heidi said
Here’s the thing. I have been a Christian all my life, I love the Lord, and I know he loves me. Seeing a movie and/or reading a book is not going to change that. I read these books when I was in high school, and I didn’t pick up much on the anti-religious undertones. And if I did, they were in fact criticizing the very things I don’t like about my own religion. But the thing is, it’s not actually any part of the religion I don’t like, it’s a lot of the people who practice it. The people who judge other people, books, movies, and basically everything else in the world. The people who do horrible things in the name of the Lord.
But the truth is, most of the time the themes in novels about Christianity are hidden and trust me, a little kid WILL NOT be able to pick up on them! It’s the kind of thing a college fiction course would discuss! You guys are giving the kids WAY too much credit here. They are going to see a movie that is colorful and entertaining, not a movie filled with anti-religion! Besides it even says they have tried not to include the religion themes.
If you ask me, the message we should be spreading to the world is one of Love. Of God’s love for us, for everyone, and the love that HE wants US to feel for the rest of the world, even atheists. I completely agree with this post, I know a lot of people who when asked why they don’t believe in God they say it has to do with the way some Christian’s act. I want to bring as many people to God as I can, and I know the best way to do it is by opening my heart and my mind…why don’t you all try it sometime?
Stephanie said
i agree that christians of a mature age and or faith should go see it. my only issue is with non-christian parents not knowing any better and little kids thinking it is the coolest thing ever. since it is targeted at children, it makes me a little wary. kids have it hard these days with so many parents not raising them to love Jesus; i don’t want a multi million dollar movie adding to the chasm.
jonny said
dear brother in Christ,
the real issue many christians should have with the golden compass is mature content (killing…whether it is an animal, another human, or God.) this is clearly NOT suitable for children. the movie may be directed to pull children into the book, which is definitely not suitable for such an impressionable age group either.
your blog brings up good points; but at the same time points to the greater problem. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH DEPTH IN THE CHURCH…SPIRITUAL DEPTH (IN THE WAY WE SEEK HIM) OR THEOLOGICAL DEPTH (IN THE WAY WE KNOW HIM.) dare i say, a majority of hollywood movies do not help us in our pursuit of Jesus Christ. i believe its clear time to get out of our comfort zone of going to movies, for whatever reason we want to spiritualize it; and start praying and seeking Jesus’ heart with our family and friends who go see movies with us. (am i regimenting a new legalism like early pentecostals [of which i am]? no!)
this is the real problem: its time to start seeking Jesus’ heart. if you spent 2 hours at a movie…did you spend even just 2 minutes with Him?
your going to see a movie will NEVER strengthen your witness to anyone! (we all stand corrected.) your spending that same amount, if not more time, on our knees in prayer and the word WILL strengthen OUR witness. i wanna waste my time on Jesus, not some (excuse me) stupid in comparison to Jesus movie.
running away with Him,
jonny
song7:10
Cass said
Bravo!
I read these books as a high school student, and, while some parts of the books made me wonder about my faith, ultimately I was able to use the books to delve deeper into my faith, and come into it as my own, and not the faith of my parents or my friends.
I agree that one should, with discernment and much prayer, inform oneself about current forms of media that could be potentially anti-Christian, and to use that information to make your own faith stronger and as a jumping-off point to preach and teach about a living, loving, merciful God.
Once again, I say “Bravo!”.
Mephi said
I’d agree with you on the fact that The Golden Compass SHOULD NOT be banned, but I have to say I do not believe American Gangster should be banned. Isn’t this the exact purpose for which the MPAA was formed? These are MOVIES and no one HAS TO go see them. I think that by telling us that movies such as American Gangster should be banned, you are insulting the right of Americans to censor themselves. By banning such a movie, you will not only be restricting the rights of others for the sole purpose of upholding your own morals, but you will be discouraging others from forming their own, different, morals.
I think talking about censoring things such as this is toying with the very foundations of American politics and society. People have the right to make their own decisions without the views of Christians or Muslims or Jews or Atheists interfering with them. Because of this, even the question of censorship of movies such as American Gangster shouldn’t be asked.
As for me? I’ll be first in line for the Golden Compass. It was a GREAT book and it looks like its going to be a pretty good movie.
LTRedwater said
I think it is a sinful and scary thing that Christians do not want their children to be exposed to alternative viewpoints. Why are Christians so threatened by ANY alternative view? What is so threatening about an athiest? Athiesm should only be threatening if it is actually somewhat attractive in terms of truth (I refer to scientific truth) and plausability. If it is utter blasphemy, let your children be exposed to it and trust that they will not turn to blasphemy.
I feel that this is yet another example of how Christians are generally very naive to alternative viewpoints, and unable to remove their blindfold for long enough to understand that other (often more intelligent) people have viewpoints which are AS VALUABLE and as likely to be true as their own. Why should children not be raised free of any religion, until they are old enough to make an informed, FREE choice? Let them see this movie, for a start. Let them see any movie of appropriate rating, for that matter.
Cody said
I think Thmpa summed it up. Here’s my take on it. Sure, the kids may not see the underlying deal there, but if they grow up with that in there minds, they will make the connection sooner or later. It’s like a ticking time bomb.
At this time I’m debating whether i will see it. Really, the thought of sitting through the movies or the books sickens me. I would rather not let that into my mind. I am told not to let ungodly things into my mind by my God, and I’m hesitant to do so.
Adam Kubrock said
Well, certainly, I do respect your thoughts on this particular matter. Indeed the gospel of Christ does look sweetest when contrasted with the bleakness and hopeless life of one enslaved to sin and separate from the God of the universe. However, there are also several good, and I think, biblical reasons for not partaking of this particular movie. Firstly however, I would like to address the “real threat.” I am not sure I quite understand your argument. You are saying that we should boycott movies which are overtly and obviously an afront to one who is striving to pursue holiness as we are told to do in scripture (Rom 6:19,22; 2 Cor 7:1; Eph 4:24; 1 Thes 3:13, 4:7; Heb 12:14; 1 Pet 1:15,16 ; 2 Pet 3:11 to name a few). However the other fold of your argument is to let slip by what just may be the silent, sneaky sin? I do not mean to condescend, but isn’t this matter pretty clearly addressed in scripture? So often we find characters who compromise and sin in ways that I, and I am sure many of you, have also done. For instance; Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5. For lying they are stricken dead on the spot. Or may we consider for a moment Lot’s wife. Her sin was brief but as she looked back upon Sodom and Gomorrah she disobeyed God and loved the world. She was turned into a pillar of salt. Or perhaps we may look at Achan when he hid some extra plunder that he was not to take. In this case, not only was he killed for his unrighteousness, but Israel as a whole had heaped up God’s just wrath. Why do I mention these instances (please feel free to search scripture to correct me or add to this incomplete list)? It is to ask the question whether God cares about that little sneaking sin. It may seem trivial to lie, love the world or just take a little extra. I mean, it’s not murder after all. And it’s not obvious to man. Would men have known that Achan had horded that treasure or raised up that sinful idol of self in his heart? Would man see that Lot’s wife secretly clung to the world, full of sin as it was? Or did men know about the sinful withholding of the riches gained when Ananias sold his land? Did they see his lie? I would estimate, from what I read, that God is the one who knows the secrets of our heart and desires our FULL commitment (1 Sam 16:7; 1 Chr 28:9; Jer 17:9; Luke 14:26-33).
As obviously as American Gangster promotes unholy, sinful ideals, the idea that a kids movie may sneak in with evil intent and premise (the killing of God to free children from the slavery caused by a life of service and faith in Him) seems much more cunning and dangerous. It appears that the obvious threat is the one which gets most treatment but the most dangerous then, slips by on the flanks. Perhaps this is why so many have striven to protest the Golden Compass. Other films in the past have clearly proponed anti-Christian thoughts and ideas. However, when the filmmakers of The Golden Compass decided not to include direct references to God and His church but instead make their point by way of symbolism, the National Secular Society is quoted to say “they are taking the heart out of it, losing the point of it. Castrating it.” In other words, they are unhappy that the movie is not as forthright about the destruction of God as it could be. If it stuck to its original content and theme it would much more clearly destroy our children’s faith in a very real God. And so I must ask myself this question. Why, for any reason, would I want to subject my own self OR my children OR anyone else’s children to the underhanded wickedness OPENLY promoted in this movie? Does this not seem to be yet another grievous compromise in light of the holiness of God? Perhaps that time would be better spent indulging the in the vast things of God which He has graciously given to us?!
Certainly I am not saying do not speak about Christ to those that are lost. But (I hope this parallel is not to far exaggerated) am I to go into a strip club in order that I may better understand how to reach those who frequent such a place? To have a common ground with which to speak with them? There are so many, SO many ways to share with the lost the truth about Jesus. Are we so lacking in ways to speak to our friends and family who do not know Christ? Indeed the whole of creation sings of God’s righteousness! Perhaps may be helpful to understand the plot outlines of this movie. But are you required to see it to reach those who may be influenced by this movie!? Couldn’t the same argument be made by one who seeks to reach out to the lost gangster in America?
My purpose is not to appear legalistic or overly idealistic. I hope not to strip any glory from Jesus by diminishing His unending grace. And I confess my own sinfulness and my inability to strive for perfect holiness as we are commanded to do in the Bible. Thanks for God’s grace without which I would have no desire for Him or His holiness! My only hope is to glorify God by encouraging Christians to withstand the face of compromise. None of us is perfect, in fact Romans 3 lets us know that outside of His grace and unclothed by the righteousness of Christ “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands;
no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.(Roms 3:10-12)”
Whether or not you see this upcoming movie is up to you. I only hope to encourage (myself included) to preach the Gospel to ourselves, and to put off the ways of the carnal man and instead to walk in the Spirit (Rom 13:13,14; Galatians 5) as one transformed by all Christ has done and is doing for us now.
soli Deo gloria,
Adam Kubrock
Jenn Allen said
I couldn’t agree more. God is not threatened by this… we should not be intimidated either. We should use all of this as opportunities to dialogue. As a parent of young impressionable children though, I am so thankful for the email efforts.
Kim said
I think you make a very valid point–and American Gangster is not the only movie out there that has that offensive material in it. If you start on that one, I could go on about countless other movies just like it. Also, I understand what you mean about not boycotting the Golden Compass, but your point about going to see it to be prepared and have something to talk about when you talk to others who don’t know Christ makes me think for a minute: if you think you should experience the movie to be able to confidantly talk about it to others, do you think that theory should work for everything? I don’t have to do drugs just so I can relate to drug addicts and give them someone who they can trust, just because I’ve done them. I don’t know if I will see this movie or not, but if I don’t, I still think I would be able to talk to non-christians about it and be able to converse about christ and help them…just a thought.
Kim said
also, something else I forgot to say: if we should not be supporting this content, like in american gangster, which has nudity and swear words and a ton of other bad material, and you say boycotting it would be good because that material is bad, don’t you think killing god is bad and worthy of being boycotted?
Holland said
Amen.
Logan said
I think that several very good point were made in this blog and there is definitely alot of value in what was said. I agree with the idea of knowing your enemy, and being prepared, but I don’t think that the facebook group that has this site’s link on it is saying otherwise. I think that when it says to not support it, it does not suggest that seeing it would be horrible. I think it suggests that we not support it, by finding out what we can about it, and sharing our knowledge with others, especially those who seek it, and warn them. Also, the reference in the in the second paragraph is to 1 Peter 3:15. To everyone who reads this. Stay strong in Him, and keep the Faith
Jonathan said
Hey – I really like your attitude about this. Make the most of every opportunity! Absolutely true
Praise God that we have been given minds to think with and take opportunities like that to share the Truth with people when the oportunity arrises!
Jack said
I read these books back when they first came out (I guess I was in middle school at the time?) and I never realized they had any kind of atheist overtone until it was brought up just recently, they were fairly subtle unless you knew what you were looking for.
Also: Most of the reviewers and people commenting on this book have clearly never read it. Ill just lay out some of the points people seem to miss in the hopes that people will listen and not be ignorant
-The story doesn’t hinge around killing god, infact god is a minor part of the story
-It does not portray the god character in a negative light (when he is found, he is sad and depressed mostly because he has been abandoned, he is relieved when he is finally released (which happens on accident). There is no “killing” involved)
-The book does not attempt to push atheism. The book actually rails against corrupt organized religion in general(whether this is better or worse, you decide, and Im sure they scrubbed all the names “clean”, meaning they removed references to the church being corrupt)
Seriously, all you people out there need to just READ THE BOOK. Unless you are so unsure of your faith that you might be “tainted” or something, then you have bigger issues then a book.
I guess Ill say it one more time:
THE STORY DOES NOT HINGE AROUND KILLING GOD.
Jonathan said
- QUOTE -
“Mephi Says:
November 24, 2007 at 9:13 pm
I’d agree with you on the fact that The Golden Compass SHOULD NOT be banned, but I have to say I do not believe American Gangster should be banned. Isn’t this the exact purpose for which the MPAA was formed? These are MOVIES and no one HAS TO go see them. I think that by telling us that movies such as American Gangster should be banned, you are insulting the right of Americans to censor themselves. By banning such a movie, you will not only be restricting the rights of others for the sole purpose of upholding your own morals, but you will be discouraging others from forming their own, different, morals.”
- End Quote -
To Writer of Quote: I’m afraid there is a mistake in your reference, my friend. The author of this post wrote “boycotte” – not “banning”.
Leah said
I partially agree with what you guys are saying…
Yes, it is good that you get a good idea of what the movie is about so that you can discuss it with your friends and possibly lead them to Christ.
BUT, you need to be careful what you watch, and hear, and do. Please be careful. Lot didn’t just decide he was going to live in Soddom and Gommorah… it was the little baby steps taht brought him to be the GATE KEEPER!
Anyways.. Just a reminder to keep yourselves on guard..
AND… ( you guys have probably heard this story, but I don’t know the particulars,, I just know the story )
A country was having problems with counterfit money being produced and taken over the border, so the contry hired their best men to study the counterfit money, and make a list of things to look for to let you know it was counterfit.
Over and over again new counterfit money was being produced and again and again, they would have to learn more and more ways of detecting a counterfit dollar.
When finally a smart guy comes along and tells them to stop looking at the counterfit, but to start studying the original.
That’s the point I’m trying to get across.
My aunt would tell me that she was reading .. all of these books on other religions so that she could know how to defend her religion…
I’ll tell you guys that she didn’t have to do all of that research!!! If she studied and memorized the Bible, she wouldn’t have to go out and study the counterfit.
Study the Bible. Pray about it… Is this something that God would want you to do? It is different for different people. Just pray about it you guys.
Studying the counterfit is going to get you nowhere… Sure, watch the movie to see what is up,… but KNOW your Bible first.
Study the original… and you will have a reason for the hope that is within you.
Someone says “Hey, what was the deal when they said that … we should kill God? I mean, do you believe in that “God stuff”?”
and you can tell them and show them.. and you wouldn’t have had to see the movie.
All I am saying.. is that it works both ways… you CAN not see the movie and still be able to use it for the glory of God.
or, you can watch it, and use that to say “Hey man, I know that god in the movie is NOT my God. My God is a merciful God, he is a WONDERFUL God who loves me and died for me.”
You REALLY don’t have to see the movie to give a hope for the reason that is within you.
Those who are watching the movie need to seriously be on their guard… remember, it was the baby steps that led Lot to Soddom and Gommorah.
Ben said
Seems to me that a little imaginative spark is what every christian needs. It’s not good to become complacent and not question God (blasphemous as it may sound). God would rather an educated man, than a stifled dolt in his presence for eternity. Question God, eat with the sinners (like jesus did right?), and socialize but be better than the sin at the end of the day. Don’t go about your business as a scared Christian. Great response! More Christians should think like you do, and I would be much more tolerant.
The problem with this being written so well and so darn influential is that now you have taken all of the thought process out of the situation for 117+(at this point) people that have read your piece. They won’t have an opinion of your own and regurgitate your opinion in the midst of other followers. Be like shepherds of men, not sheep. You are doing well, the rest, however, are barely scraping by, and I myself am at the bottom of the furnace. Thank you though!!!!
kenny said
T.J.
I would first pray that God give you the wisdom and the ability to prepare your heart. I would recommend books such as “New Evidence” by Josh McDow. Josh McDow was an atheist studied the Bible just so he could prove it wrong. He is famously known for proving many religious literature (such as the Koran) as inconsistent, contradictory, and so on. He finally, after years of inability, became a Christian after understanding the word of God from a personal, life-changing perspective. Speaking to your atheist friend probably will be difficult. What is shocking to me is that your ‘Christian’ friends were upset because you approached this person about it. A Christian needs to understand that we are living in a world full of too much pluralist ideas, accepting people for things that God speaks out against. Pray about it, I trust God will guide you in this journey.
kenny said
Oh and more towards topic. I think Satan hasn’t “finally entered Hollywood”…he’s been doing it for such a long time I think it’s nuts someone finally recognized it. Any Christian, thinking it’s okay to watch filth like this, needs to re-evaluate. Too many Christians are taking worldly views and saying ” oh its okay..its just a movie” Children watching this film are being fed junk..Junk that isn’t of God and as Christians, we all need to be concerned and pray that parents become responsible and not allow their child to be exposed to a evil means of conveying garage to the world.
Drew said
I think that you are missing the point that this is a fictional story with fictional characters. I understand that you do not support the idea’s of this author, but can’t you respect his ability to weave a rich tapestry of fictional writing. I also believe that American Gangster is not a pornographic film with the F-word placed in it over a hundred times, real people do in fact talk like even though it isn’t nice. This movie is rated R as it should be. If you were disturbed at any part of it why didn’t you leave and get a refund, no need to steer everyone away from it.
Bruce said
I completely agree with this. I saw American Gangster and I have to say it was pretty bad. But more relevant to the discussion at hand is the attack on Christianity. I don’t know how else to say it, but Christians need to get over it–its going to happen. Christians have always been attacked throughout history and the true religion has always survived. I’m just glad all I have to put up with is misguided authors instead of governments trying to kill me.
Meghan said
Children are bombarded with God’s name many times each day. The students in my class stand up with me and say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. God is a part of American culture, whether we believe he exists or not. I find it refreshing that there is a movie that shows a different viewpoint. Children should be shown various viewpoints on the world so that they can chose the one that they agree with.
Mephi said
people do not have to see these movies.
God gave us free will for a reason. To try to keep others from watching the movie is none of anyone’s business. LTREDWATER has very clearly defined views on this matter.
Shauna said
To Les:
The problem with Christians today is that we try to “police others”? I don’t know about that, but I would hope that we try to help others. Being a Christian you are called not just to believe but to then do works, be active with your faith… many forget that.
Sandra,
Though I appreciate your history lesson, it doesn’t apply here. Their inventions were not made with the purpose that Pullman has stated. That is what makes it different. His agenda is what I most object to and so therefore his tools to employ said agenda(his books and this movie) are things that I will of course reject and boycott against. I do not boycott against atheists in general. I have better things to do with my time.
People are entitled to ther own statements of belief or in this case non-belief. But when my religous beliefs are attacked why would I not fight back? When I know someone is wrong why not say so? So many misunderstandings about my faith have been told and retold, leading to questions that leave my mouth agape. There comes a point when you have to decide to either stand quietly by or to stand up and say “your wrong, that is not what its about”. I belive that boycotting is also spreading different ideas, something you are fervently agreeing with, no?
You talk about fear. I can pretty much gaurantee you that in atheism lies feelings of disappointment, anger, and fear of the unknown. Or that their is indeed something there and they resent it or can’t accept it.
Also, do not think that people are not educating their children in different religions and ideas then what they, themselves, have chosen to believe in. In my case, I went to a religiously run school and I learned not only all about my religion but about others too, and in detail. Not only was I taught this in my religous classes but also in the regular subjects that all kids learn, history and geography. Wether they pay attention or not is their own fault. I choose my religion and many others do too, I doubt that people truly fallow a religion that they don’t believe in. I don’t consider Pullman a good source for children to learn about other ideas and beliefs from either. I would rather facts at that young age(his target audience is quite young)and not persuassive literature and entertaining movies.
And no, standing up for what you believe in should never be called silly. Wouldn’t that be stimying my point of view and shrinking my box that I should be thinking outside of, if I were to not say anything?
To my knowledge, the angel is called God. And though he many not really be God, their is that association isn’t there. How smart of him, yes?
When I spoke of it being the same God that we all believe in I ment(I should have clarified this) the God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I was refering to us in a common ground setting.That its not just the Christian God he objects to.
Davin said
I just read your opinions about the movie and I disagree. I do believe that we need to be more up front on other movies with graphic content and warning others the dangers of putting these things in our mninds. But I also believe one way we can really make a difference is to keep our money out of the hands of this so called atheist, so that we don’t help him with his second and third movies of the trilogy. I know all about the movie from the internet. You don’t have to go see it at the theater to be able to share the love of Christ with someone, or to have enough information to be able to hold an intelligent conversation with someone either. And by the way, let’s call the author for what he is – a satanist.
christopher said
im a christian and im still seeing this movie because its a movie, lighten up guys.
when a thesbian came to Jesus and said he had to do something in a play that went against him and God he asked Jesus what should he do. Jesus said do it because its not real, its just a play. movies have loopholes, they can go against God and the bible because its not real. so again, lighten up a little.
Thmpa said
Christopher, I don’t remember that story. Mind giving me a reference?
Alex Sloan said
Well said. When will Christians stop being against so much stupid stuff and instead tell the world what we are for? Anyone remember “The Last Temptation of Christ?” Lets just say, you have to see the whole movie. Google it, there were tons of people against it and they never even saw the movie because of what they thought it was about, and in the end, it actually had a positive message about faith and what Jesus did for us.
Dillon said
You made some very good points. Maybe even enough to get me to go see it. I don’t like the idea of my money going to this movie or anyone involved with it but no one is going to listen to an Christian argue against this movie when they haven’t even seen it.
Adam Kubrock said
I’m sorry Christopher, what part of the bible is that story found again?
Zach Youngs said
I probably have not been a Christian as long as the rest of you (only one year), but I don’t believe that American Gangster, a film based upon reality could be compared to The Golden Compass, a film based in fantasy. Also, not to ruin this for anyone else, but the good guys win. The people that are perpetrating that violence and nudity are brought to justice. This is a story. A story that people can choose to watch or not. One of the greatest gifts that God has given us is free will. A person has a choice of what movies they want to see. I personal liked the movie American Gangster and it has not hurt my relationship with God in any way. The movie didn’t want to make me kill, maim, sell drugs, or watch more naked women. What it did was open my eyes to the events of the past and give me the courage to not make that the future. It inspired me to want to help those of my fellow humans that are helpless and trapped in this horrible world in our society today. We need movies such as this to open the eyes of more Christians to the horrible truths of our world and make them realize that they have the tools, The Bible, and the place, a church, to help these sad people who are wasting away their lives. To minister to those people is what Christ came here to do:
“Jesus answered them, ‘It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.’” -Luke 5:31
Megan said
sometimes us christians discust me. we make this huge a deal about a purely fictional book series/movie when we could be focusing our energy on much more important things..
he made a good point that accually GOING to this movie is an AWESOME outreach oportunity!! this may be the first time that many of the viewers have ever come into contact with a christian!! and some of you want to boycott it!!
like so many others have said… it’s a movie!! lighten up!!
Corbin said
I don’t even know what to say about the reaction to this movie. I read the golden compass in the 6th grade and I never once questioned my religion. The thing that offends me the most is that you people are up in arms about exposing our children to opposing views. This kind of thing leads to ignorance and more bloodshed. Why are we trying to help those people who thrive on violent opposition by making literally telling our kids that they can’t see another person’s view. What I meant by it leads to more bloodshed is that several atrocities that have happened (the Crusades for this example) because ignorant people in power extended their personal vendettas on the masses. Islam and Christianity are very similar in the respect that both teach peace and loving our fellow man. So why can’t we love the fellow man that doesn’t agree with us? I’m Catholic but if this is how people of my religion treat others of other beliefs I don’t know if the God I thought existed is getting His message across to his people. Read some fiction, read some fact, read other religion’s texts, travel to other countries and talk to the people, and listen to all as they tell you what they believe, in the ears is where I think God truly exists.
Paula said
Great point apostlepd
Pierce said
While I am not a Christian (I’m agnostic), I highly respect your desires to openly and logically discuss your views.
Proponents of religious and non-religious philosophies alike have been guilty of confronting conflicting viewpoints with hostility rather than reason.
Emotion taking the place of reason is one of the biggest problems with society today.
So again, I applaud your efforts to create a rational interface between conflicting viewpoints.
Molly said
I’m a Christian also, but I see no reason to for people to call for a boycott.
I’m an American who believes in the people’s responsibility to inform themselves. I’m a Christian, but I’ve read the Torah and the Qur’an. I watched Passion and admired the symbolism of the Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe, but I intend to watch the Golden Compass as well. How can you judge something without first reading and/or watching it?
Shame on the Christians who say to boycott this book. For the few literate people left, do you really want this world to end up like Fahrenheit 415? Should I start memorizing my favorite book in case the firemen come and I have to flee to the woods?
Sincerely,
A concerned Christian American.
Rachel said
It’s been interesting to read some of your commentaries and encouraging to see people from both sides coming together to maturely talk about the buzz that this movie is generating (without bashing each other’s view points). I want to share what I think about all this.
Personally, I think the argument made using the “go see the movie so you can be prepared to discuss it with your non-Christian friends” can be a slippery slope. The argument being, go and experience something for yourself so you’re prepared to argue for/against it. Why? Because using that argument, what’s to stop you from applying it to a situation like, “well, I’ve never smoked pot and I don’t think it has bad effects, so I’ll try it so I can tell my other friends why they shouldn’t do it,” and so the slope continues. I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t go see the movie, but I am saying you should think about it and ask God about it. Even though it may sound silly to ask God about such a thing, if this is generating that much interest and you want to be led to do the right thing it sort of makes sense you should seek Him about the very thing that involves Him. Right??
I also think it’s important to realize that as adults, our ability to reason and spiritually discern things is probably more refined than most children or young teens, so therefore, I believe it’s important to consider that before taking the whole family to see this film. While yes, children can recognize that it is “make-believe”, the underlying message is still absorbed on a spiritual level. And allowing kids to make that choice for themselves, is well, silly. I mean, face it, if you as a parent give your child a choice for dinner, “honey, do you want cake and ice cream for dinner or do you want chicken and broccoli?” what do you think their answer will be? Cake and ice cream of course! And if you give them the choice of seeing a movie where polar bears talk, the characters live in a fantasy world, versus some other movie, which one do you think they’ll choose? The fun bear movie, of course! For this reason, as parents, God gives you the responsibility to steer your child in the direction he or she is supposed to go. So, if you do choose to see it together, I think a chat after-ward about the movie’s theme would be appropriate.
The point is, what can be a stumbling block to one person or a standard God calls me to, can be different for you. God can tell one person to not see this movie because God knows this person’s heart and knows that maybe there’s some susceptibility there, whereas, another person, does not feel against it one way or the other. Ask Him, and He’ll let you know.
I do like it when movies like this come out because it opens both sides up for dialogue. And if we can talk to atheists and agnostics in love and give sound, scriptural logic to contradict what this author perceives of Christianity and Christ, then, GREAT! Let’s just be sure to do it in such a way that God is glorified, because it’s about Him, not us.
Love in Christ.
Luke 12:48 “From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”
owlsci said
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. I think it’s important to stay open to experiences like this movie, rather than choosing to ignore them. I definitely agree with you that it can be an opportunity for people to strengthen their beliefs; seeing the other side of the story isn’t always bad. I’ve put up an agnostic’s perspective on my new blog.
Adrienne said
I also would like to see the movie, I’ve read the books and can’t deny their completely atheisitic intent…however, I’ve also heard tell (I can’t confirm this, I haven’t actually seen a script from the movie, but it certainly makes logical sense) that the studio approached to make the movie would realize that a film containing the books’ exact purpose WOULD be boycotted by the majority of Christians…a significant drop in theater revenues. Supposedly the script was carefully written to exclude the anti-Church, anti-Christian themes to vividly portrayed in the literary version of the story, keeping the adventurous, epic spirit of the story but undermining the controversial aspect. The real warning should be to parents of children who have seen the movie and wish to read the books-they are much more ideologically explicit, and in comparison the movie should be relatively harmless.
Shoshanah said
It’s true… the MOVIE has nothing to do with the atheism; it’s the books. They supposedly “kill G-d” in the last one, which is freakishly horrible. If the author is so atheist, you’d think he would just leave G-d out of the picture, seeing as atheists don’t believe He exists…
Rachel Ann said
I applaud this. You make so many valid points here, I can’t pick just one to praise.
My only concern is for those who are not firmly based in their own beliefs. The concern is that people will be swayed by the movies/books, and there are certainly some Christians/etc. who will be. So I agree with you, with the slight exception that perhaps those who know the movie may affect them keep their distance.
apostlepd said
I HAVE POSTED A GENERIC RESPONSE TO THE MOST COMMON PROBLEMS WITH MY BLOG AT THE END OF IT. IF YOU HAVE READ THE BLOG BEFORE TODAY (MON, NOV 26), PLEASE RE-READ IT TO GET THE ADDITION AT THE END. THANKS!
Also, thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post their opinions respectfully and honestly.
Mary Beth said
I just spent the last 30 minutes reading through all the post. Before I state the words “I am a Christian” let me define what that means. I at a time and place in my life received knowledge that Jesus, God’s son, came and lived on this earth for 33 years. He grew up Jewish and by Jewish traditions. He was born in a stable, taught the scriptures at a young age(he used these in his conversation with Satan in the wilderness) he went to the Temple, and he worked as a carpenter as he grew older. He did all these things not only to fulfill the prophecy of the old testament, but also to give us a standard to live by. He was God but did not seek glory or fame, he was creator but did not ask for all his riches. He lead a sinless life. 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God has not called us to uncleanness but to holliness. Jesus was with out blame. He preached a peaceful message of love and hope. There was no radical charge or asking for money to heal. When asked if followers should give money to the govermentor or all to the Temple he replied “Give Ceasear what is his and give God what is God’s. So here is the message “we are all sinners and we all come up short” Romans 3:23 Sin means to miss the mark. God gave us free will meaning man has always had a choice. John 3:16 ” For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that WHO SOEVER believes in him will not die but have everlasting life” God does not want any to parish but he has given us free will. He sent his son Jesus to die for our sin so that his blood would cover our sin. But he is not forcing anyone to recieve that gift. It’s a choice. I made that choice, by making that choice I said I believe your word (the Bible) I believe that every word is true. I believe that Jesus was crucified (a fact that has never been disbuted) and on the third day rose from the grave. Jesus is now in heaven. He is waiting for his word to reach the ends of the earth that all who will, would recieve him. He will then return and take all the believers to heaven to be rewarded for their work in preaching and teaching the gospel. Romans 8:1″there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ” The only sin that is unforgivable and recieves judgement is Blasphemy. Which means you denounce God, reject God, Do not believe in God. We are all sinners even Christians. We all come short but we are not here to please ourselves or the world. The Bible says we are to be aliens here meaning we should not look the same. The goal is not to fit in. The bible is our survival manual. Everything we need is in it. “There is nothing new under the sun”so we need not seek wisdom from the world. The only commandment that Jesus gave in the new testament was that ” love one another even as I have loved you”.
So as a Christian I am boycotting the movie because of the deciet. When I saw the movie poster I thought it was a sequel to Narnia. I am a mother of three and by the look of the movie poster it looked like a good movie. The goal is to get the info out about the movie. That then leads to a choice and that is the viewers free choice. I do not need to see the movie or read the book to know how to respond because the Bible has all the answers. I do not want to attack any of the beliefs or thoughts of the post already listed. I am sorry for any bad experience that you might have had with a “Christian” but just as many unbelievers in these post urged Christians to read or view the movie, let me urge you to read the Bible for yourself. Then make your choice
Jennifer said
Hi, I found your post through facebook. I was all ready to up and join the group, but I read what you had to say first and it put everything into a different perspective. I never thought it was a sin to go see the movie, though I still don’t think it is right to spend one’s money supporting such a film. I’m still rolling that thought around in my mind. You see if that movie is a flop in the theaters then the chances of there being a second or a third will be slim. Yes, I agree that this movie and other movies like it can be a good tool for sharing the Gospel, but I think there is no question that Christian parents should not allow their children to view it until they are old enough to handle the underlying themes.
About “American Gangster” and other movies of it’s ilk, I think you do not receive emails warning about it because when Christians look at its rating and contents they automatically mark it off their must see list; so why send out an email warning Christians against not support a movie that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt is wrong anyway?
Also good point about chick-flicks being harmful. Chick-flicks play with girls emotions and selfesteem and can be just as harmful to girls spiritually as immoral films are to guys spiritually.
Nice post and thank you for your time.
Justin said
By the way, you saved me from posting a similar thread on the facebook page. It’s better coming from you though. Chirstians only listen to what other Christians say. Coming from me it would have sounded angry and spiteful. (Probably also because I was angry and spiteful when I saw the group.)
Justin said
Thank you. You are one of the few Christians out there who who lives by and upholds some of the morals and values that you preach. I have always questioned how “Christians” were able to so easily condemn this or that idea or lifestyle or people. Did their own icon and savior, Jesus Christ not tell the Jews about to stone Mary, “Let he who has not sinned throw the first stone?” Though I think in some ways you have done this yourself, calling to “boycott American Gangster.” (I am simply questioning your motives here: do you seek to warn your brothers and sisters to save them from temptation, or do you desire to remove the movie from theaters and infringe on other people’s rights to watch it? I have always been against censorship because I feel it is forcing chaste behavior instead of allowing it to be chosen.) I am not a Christian myself, but I would like to commend you on your ability to discern your own truths and not be swept up in the mainstream lunacy. People like you give Christianity a chance in this world.
Ryan said
I read what you have to say and all I can say is interesting. I agree with you that some need to see this to defend their opinions, but you must also remember the conundrum. If they see the movie they are also putting money towards something that they don’t agree with, and with this being a capitalist economy you are voting with what you spend. The media and the rest of the country will think that everyone really agrees with this if everyone goes and sees it. Overall your ideas are great on paper, but in reality they don’t work perfectly.
Tabitha said
Hi! First, I would like to say that I am a member of the church. I agree and I also disagree with some things that you said. Firstly, let me say that you are on the right track with this. As christians, are job is to teach the word of God, not go around boycotting people’s freedom of speech. I believe that people, including Christians, don’t realize that when we start boycotting people who do things against God’s word, that we, in fact, are jepordizing (sp? sorry) our own religious freedoms. It’s very un-Consitutional to do such as we all, as Americans, Christians included, have this freedom of speech. As I try not to be a respector of persons, the director of this film also has this right.
However, we also know from God’s word that we, as Christians, are to be examples. Most of our teachings our actually done by our example. Before you even speak, those around you see a great deal of who you are, or at least, who they think you are. I do not think that I would go to see TGC, not necessarily because I think it’s a “sin”, but because of example purposes. Nor, for the same purpose, would I go boycot this film. My way of “boycotting”, if you will, is by spreading the word and letting those who receive the seed grow from it.
You are correct! We (in general) shouldn’t say, “we’re boycotting this anti-God movie” when we’re watching nudity and vulgar movies. However, one sin is equal in God’s eyes. To watch a movie regarding “killing God” is no worse than watching a movie with sex, violence, swearing, and other “unholy things”. You have actually opened my eyes to this. I have thought before about this but, you are actually right. We should all stop watching certain movies with such sinful connotations in them, also for the same reason: example. We are told to have clean and pure thoughts (sorry, I’m not sure of the verse, forgive me). I’m actually glad that you put your comments up here. I think we should all, as Christians and non, think about this carefully. I am, by the way, by no means going to attend TGC nor have it in my home.
Also, I wanted to point out that one would not want to read a Satanic book to be one-up on Satanists. It’s just not safe and very dangerous to look into certain things. As I said, we are to have pure, clean and holy thoughts. I agree with the fact that all we need, as we are told in the Bible, is…the Bible (2 Tim 3:16-17). I will end with that. Thank you for your time. : )
Chris said
Hey, I agree so much. My brother invited me to join the “do NOT support the Golden Compass” facebook group. I’m going to see it opening day as well. And I don’t really like the anti-God views of it. I do see the literary value in the books as a work of art. nothing to be taken serious. I do agree some people will take offense to this, and think it is a teaching opportunity. I have the same views on the Harry Potter books. I think they are a good work of literary art, and got lots of enjoyment out of them. But that’s all I thought about them. They too gave me an opportunity to share my thoughts about Christianity and Witchcraft with many fellow Harry Potter Fans.
EP said
I can understand the point that it is not a sin to go to the movie, but I also feel that I should not patronize this movie because of the moral values of it. In some scenes, as I understand, there are priests and bishops harming children.
If one wants to learn the opposition why not borrow the books from the library and read them oneself? That means that whatever you are reading has already been purchased and you are not paying more money to see the movie and help pay the thousand dollar salaries of actors and actresses who chose to make this and the other movies.
I do not believe that all nudity is sin. It is the treatment of nudity, and unfortunately in most cinema nudity is treated in a pornographic manner. I am naked in the shower, is that sinful?
All I am saying is that people should be informed so they may make the correct decisions. i have been seeing the trailers for this film for almost a year now. I thought it was another film along the lines of Chronicles of Narnia, someone even asked me if I was interested in watching that Narnia-like movie. I did not know about the atheistic views until just a few weeks ago. I am interested however in finding the anti-christian messages so that I may be able to debate with someone who may hold other views.
I dont understand how going to The Golden Compass and not going to American Gangster is going to make one any less sinful. If one is claiming that God is dead and other such atheistic messages as presented in The Golden Compass that is blasphemy, whether or not you speak those words from your mouth or you passively watch them in a movie. If the problem with American Gangster is that the values are not Christian ideals because of nudity, violence, and adult language, then is that not a double standard? If one chooses to watch the movie and it promotes sex, violence, and has the “F” word a couple dozen times and passively watches that movie is that not also the same type of sin, even though one doesnt speak those words nor practice extra-marital sex?
My biggest concern is not the message, but the fact that the atheistic views were misconstrued in the trailers and I am just now learning what the real theme of the movie is. I want people to be aware so that they may make an informed decision.
Tom said
I would just like to say that just because you all think you’re saved, doesn’t mean that you should go out and meddle with those who you think are not. I understand that you may have good intentions and I can’t speak for all of us atheists, but we would appreciate it if you all would get off your soap box and keep to your own. The book is fiction, ergo, the god is fiction. I swear, you Christians are all crazy.
I would recommend that you all open up your minds to the possibility that perhaps there isn’t a god. If you look at the science and use your logic, you will quickly come to the realization that all religion is ridiculous. Look at the history for goodness sake. The historical texts make the trends in religion obvious. The evidence is insurmountable. I know they say you can’t argue religion, but I feel that it’s important too every once in a while so that you all don’t take over the world.
I would recommend that everyone here read the book God Is Not Great. Even if you disagree with it, try and look at it objectively without involving your own beliefs. That may sound impossible, and it may be if you’ve been brain washed since a very young age. But whatever. Please email me back if you have any comments or ideas, but you must be civil and be prepared to argue.
Michelle said
I believe the point of the boycott and the informational emails going out are more for parents, to warn them NOT to let their CHILDREN see it. The author makes it very clear that he wants to kill God in the minds of children.
I do not have to go see a pornographic movie or read a pornographic book to know it is bad. I do not have to read the satanic bible to know it is bad. I will take the word of others that this movie is not appropriate. I will not waste my money or my children’s minds on such nonsense. I do not understand why everyone is making such a big deal about this, it is our duty to keep our brothers and sisters informed and then we can make our own decisions.
You know that non-believers and atheists are having a hey day because Christians are arguing about this. Same thing over and over, should Christians do this or not do that, it is between you and the Lord. If it is not, then you have a problem.
Amber said
If this guy is a self-proclaimed atheist, then why does he have a book about killing God? Doesn’t being an atheist mean you don’t believe in God in the first place? This man is a moron.
jessie said
i couldn’t agree more with what you are saying.
i am 16 and read the books when i was 14 and plan to read them again. i never even though there was an anti-god message. not once and i have been very into God since i was 13. i think that people don’t realize that knowledge is power. the more you know the better you can argue. i also read the da vinci code. it’s a load of garbage, but when people wanna argue, i can fight right back.
amazing logic.
i 100% agree with you.
Sara said
I totally agree. Let’s not promote ignorance, but rather watch this movie so that we can make VALID and INFORMED arguments about what it teaches. If not, arguing against it just makes us look like idiots. I feel it would be a lot more convincing if we actually KNOW what we’re talking about.
Thanks for a great article!
Emily said
I realize my voice will be lost among the hundreds of other comments. But if by some small chance someone, particularly the author of this blog, comes across it, I would be thrilled.
I get the point you bring out and I fully agree. There are things that are much more detrimental to the health of a Christian’s faith: Violence, vulgarity, pornography, ect. But no one will compat those because they slowly seep into our lives and are accepted as normality in movies as well as society today. This movie will not rattle a person’s faith, if it is truly their own. It’s a movie for goodness sake. Yeah, if your looking for a message when you watch it, you’ll find it. But if you’re just watching it or reading it for a good story, that’s all it will be. It’s a fictional story, in a fictional world. People seem to lose sight of that. I for one am excited for the movie. I think it’s a well written adventure and I can’t wait to see how well they do converting it to the big screen.
As far as using it as a tool to spread the gospel, I don’t think it will work. It’s a defensive strategy and it just makes people think you’re upset at the controversy. I know you said that we should watch it so we can have a clear opinions of the movie, but that idea was severely lost in the rest. You may say that that’s the reason we should watch it, but it’s suffocated by everything else you’re saying about how we should watch it so we can teach of God’s true nature. That’s the only contradiction I find. Whether intentional or not, you give your readers a mixed message.
Watch the movie as a movie critic. Decide whether you like the story or not. Discuss God and share his gospel and love without the movie. Simple as pie.
Laura said
I read all three of the Golden Compass books when I was younger. Maybe sixth grade. The funny thing is, I didn’t remember any of the theology stuff. All I remembered was the wonderful story about parallel universes and friendship. I re-read all the books this summer. I was actually quite shocked at the theology but it didn’t make it any less of a good story. It isn’t true, but really. Who’s going to think it is. It’s FICTION. I doubt children are going to be really driven into spiritual darkness by this movie. The first book doesn’t have a whole lot about the twisted theology anyway. People know this is a work of fiction. Talking armored bears don’t exist in real life.
Michael Dinsmore said
geesh,
Bro, I just have to say that although these are pretty much straight forward, christianity 101 statements, but man are they good. You are totally correct, it goes back to Jesus himself, what would have happened if he had only met and spoke to the “righteous” and “saved” ones of his day, where would we be? And who would the cross have been for?
I am going out to see the movie now, you make an excellent point, and thank you for clarifying the true christian stance on this subject, becuase it really is a big deal in the church.
You sound very IHOP like (International House of Prayer). I love it, being an IHOPer myself, but you probably dont know what that is.
Keep on bro.
Barbie said
Thank GOODness someone is SANE out there! I grew up in a somewhat sheltered Christian home. I say somewhat because my mom was strict and my dad not so much…and she finally eased up once I graduated high school. But having said that, I don’t agree that you should run from all things that “challenge your faith”. We should LOVE a challenge. I do, I love to talk about my faith, or politics, or anything with someone who is close-minded because they are such a challenge to reach!
Plus, for all the parents out there who want to shelter their kids from everything…I know several examples where that backfired BIG TIME once the kids moved on to college. Take it from someone who was somewhat sheltered, I wish my mom would’ve taken me to movies or let me see shows that she felt challenged our faith. Why? Not because I wanted to watch whatever is popular, but because it would’ve been an AMAZING opportunity to reaffirm my faith. She could’ve taken me to see the movie and then sat me down over ice cream and talked to me about it. What was weird about how they portrayed God in the movie? Is that what I/church have taught you? Is that what you believe? Why do you believe what you do about God? etc. etc. etc. Growing up I was the blind sheep who followed church and parents and never asked why or how or ever questioned anything. I found that I couldn’t reach non-believers that way because I couldn’t back up my beliefs with concrete evidence (aka Scripture and life experience). When we lose the foundations of our faith, we lose the meaning and the true power behind it. Believing in something ‘just because’ is not believing whole-heartedly. God does not ask for part of us, or a little bit, He wants our WHOLE hearts believing and living in Him. Once I loosened up a bit and ventured out into that previously forbidden world it only made me THANKFUL for having loving parents, a great church, and a relationship with God. Why? Because those forbidden things showed a life that was filled with worries and anxieties that I never had to face because I had morals and a God who worries for me. How awesome.
Overall message from my long-winded comment: It is better to see or read that which is directly challenging your beliefs not only to be prepared when non-believers ask questions of you, but to reaffirm why you believe what you do and gain greater appreciation for that faith and love you experience.
Corey said
Paul says:
Examine everything, hold on to the good.
1 Thess. 5:21
I saw the Da Vinci Code. It was an interesting movie. But do believe what it says? No. I researched the movie and the supposed connections with Christianity and it was superficial at best. And due to this research, I could refute those who brought the movie up in arguments. The same could go for the Golden Compass. Even if the author was an atheist, it could be an entertaining movie nonetheless.
But have knowledge about what you believe (knowledge isn’t a bad thing!) The basis for the word faith in the Bible is the same as the Greek word for ‘forensic evidence’. Ex. In CSI, they may not see the actual crime, but they have hair, fingerprint and blood analysis. Some of the reasons I trust the Bible is the textual criticism evidence, the historical evidence, and the linguistic evidence. If the Almighty God gave us His Word, then he wouldn’t tell us to be ignorant to everything else. He wants us to look at the other stuff and see how it compares (and it don’t!). The Bible has been proven to be correct countless times by many people, regardless of what history teachers (whose main source of Bible history is 19th-early 20th century scholarship) say.
If you don’t want to see the movie, then you don’t have to. If the movie looks interesting, watch it. It’s just a movie, but be prepared for any kind of questions which may arise.
Trent said
I like the principles of Christianity and like Christ but have come to grips with my eventual death. I can not be a Christian because the foundation of Christianity is heaven but I don’t believe in heaven. I’ve talked with Christians and Preists when it is all boiled down being a good person through Christ’s teachings is not the focus of Christianity but instead accepting Christ as your eternal savior. I find that really shallow that the discussion always leads to Heaven not what I can do for others.
Tyler the Casey said
There is an old saying: “Fight fire with fire”, and I believe that many of you have come to believe in this lie set by the devil himself…
When the apostles were with us–in the flesh–they warned us of many things. These warnings came from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and sometimes from Christ Himself.
2nd Timothy chapter 2 verses[14-26]
Arguments…quarrels…debates all lead us nowhere.
By learning the ways of the world so that you may be “prepared” to battle and eventually SAVE the {lost/unbelieving} generation is simply relying on [your own] intellect and insight…
psalm 101…
David made a promise to God to “set before his eyes–No vile thing”
“The deeds of faithless men I hate; they will not cling to me. Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil.
There is a difference between the honest, weak, and weary sinner who is [seeking] the straight and narrow AND the one who looks to “kill God”
2nd Tim 4:1
“All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God my be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
Try letting God prepare you through what is good, what is holy, noble and pure…
in peace~
Johson said
Ok why would you even compare the Golden Compass to American gangster? Golden Compass is a childrens movie aimed at CHILDREN and American Gangster is aimed at adults. Its not like a kid could get into american ganster in most theatres and the whole uproar is about our kids…try and stay focused on the topic dude.
Stephanie said
Kudos…I agree whole-heartedly; I do believe that to do this would require a person very firm in their beliefs so they are not swayed by the opposition.
Josh said
Just wanted to say thanks for bringing some objectivity to the matter. I find it to be disturbing how quickly people (often especially my fellow Christians) are to throw themselves into fanatic opposition of someone or something or some idea. 1 Thess. 5:21 tells us to “carefully examine everything”; And wasn’t it Christ Himself who redirected those among His disciples who were ready to do war against the Romans?
At any rate, I will refrain from climbing atop a “soap-box” (funny how our friend Tom’s comments above came to us from atop one of his own). It’s just good to see that I’m not alone as being both a Follower of the Lord and a seeker of truth in this world of sensationalism. Thanks.
Kevi said
I understand your point about American Gangster, and agree that you can share your faith by seeing the movie and being aware of its content/themes. However I think there is another point to be made. For a movie like American Gangster, I don’t need a Christian group or email to warn me, I can see the MPAA rating of R and the plethora of negative things that trails it(violence, pervasive drug content and language, nudity and sexuality) and know that I don’t need to see it. In fact I don’t go to any rated R movie, and many PG-13, because the MPAA tells me it contains things I don’t want to expose myself to. However a movie like The Golden compass appears to be geared towards children, and even though it is rated PG-13, the rating is for “sequences of fantasy violence” which sounds rather tame. So the danger is in people going to this movie, or more specifically taking their young children to the movie, thinking it is appropriate for children. The warning is about the anti-Christian themes because those won’t be mentioned in the MPAA rating. While I think everyone would be better served by checking out movies themselves beforehand, many trust commercials and simple ratings to inform them, and there is no harm in providing people with information they may not get otherwise.
Good luck to you with seeing the movie and God Bless!
Jared said
Well written, good thoughts. Be encouraged that some are affirming what you think and say. Keep on writing and actually thinking through things.
soul sista said
sounds like the devil talking above….”its ok if i was watch cos im helping my belief” get a reality check brother.
[Note from the author concerning this comment: "This is the most entertaining comment yet."]
Lori said
I agree. How are we to strengthen our faith if we are not willing to go through the trials and tests? It’s not like I am going to go and see TGC and come out of the theater not a Christian. I know where my hope is. I know who my God is. No movie on this planet is going to shake that. And to have the opportunity, through a movie, to share the Gospel? Bring it on.
I agree with you and I think everyone should look at it from this persepctive.
Danielle said
I’m so tired of Christians boycotting books, people, shows, movies, and more because of its views. How can you reach out to individuals and pull them towards Christ if you are not educated about their views and able to establish your own. Is it not possible that a person not firm in their faith could be further pushed from God due to an idea planted in their head from a movie like TGC? Anything is possible… but what should not be possible is a movie such as TGC pushing a strong Christian away from the God they know. If you are so secure in your beliefs to suggest boycotting a movie, then you should be secure enough and grounded enough in your faith that you would go see the movie eventually. I could not agree more with this author!
adam said
spoken like a TRUE christian
Kel said
Finally, someone else who seems to get it. A lot of my friends were joining that and I asked one of them. Have you even read the books? The answer was no.
I’ve read them. I enjoyed them up until the ending. I’m going to be going to the movie as soon as I can. And I’m a Christian.
The movie’s rated PG-13 not exactly a children’s movie, even though it may be marketed that way. It’s ultimately up to the parents. Boycotting is not going to help.
It’s like with Harry Potter. If you’re 13 like the rating says, you should have your foundations set by then and are prepared to learn about the opposition to being a Christian. By then you can take it as a wonderful, fun, fantasy story. I love the Harry Potter series. Have I ever once considered becoming a wicca? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Nihil161 said
…, I wish Christianity stood for things. I guess you guys just keep doing that thing you do where you bash people for having different views and I’ll just be over here doing the bland things I normally do like giving blood and helping people.
Matt said
I agree with this completely. Seeing it and able to talk to non-believrs about this is a perfect opportunity to really show poeple the real God taht we serve. If we don’t know what we are up against then how can we defend our faith? Just because the view is wrong doesn’t mean we shouldn’t watch or read something. Great blog. I wish more Christians would look at these things like this.
Jessica said
I could not agree more. I’m very very proud of you for posting this. I only wish more people would understand this, instead of just jumping to conclusions or making stupid, rash comments without actually considering what you are trying to say. Congratulations. I’m very glad I got the invite to the “Do NOT support ‘The Golden Compass’” group so that I was able to read this post.
samantha said
I absolutely agree with you, how can we as Christians defend our faith if we do not know what other people are saying about it. This is an opportunity to share with people the fiction in the story and the Love of the REAL God…
and your point about how we will warn people about movies that challenge our beliefs but not movies that will cause us to stumble in our faith and sin was even better. We get so caught up in the now and focus only on what we think is important, and unfortunately the walk of a brother or a sister has become unimportant to us.
Ana said
thank you so much for your article. I read TGC as a kid and never picked up on the anti-Christian God themes. I simply read the book as it was intended – a book of fiction. Maybe the author’s goal was to make people atheist, but as readers and as Christians we can change our interpretation of the book. TGC has a God, but so does Greek mythology – they are not the same God; therefore, a person can read TGC and see the movie with all its anti-God images without loosing faith in his/her God.
nicole said
to all those who are terrified of their children seeing this movie or reading these books: where are you as their parents? why is it so difficult to have the same conversations about this movie with your children as you would with a non-christian friend? i don’t understand what you feel you can gain by sticking your heads in the sand. your children are more likely to watch the movie at a friend’s house and keep it a secret if this is the attitude you take. hiding from things that can “threaten” your faith do more to unravel it than learning about them and being able to have an open discussion about your faith and the differences between the portrayal of God in the media and the true, pure relationship we share with God that is so deeply personal and beautiful. knowledge is power, and how better to protect your children than to be open about the many things in this world that will try to pull them away from God? if you aren’t willing to have these conversations with your own children, how will you have these conversations with others who are looking to you for guidance?
Katie said
Great blog! Way too many people are making assumptions about this movie without really know what it is about.
I’ve been a Christian my entire life and my faith is very important to me, and I first read The Golden Compass books a few years ago. To be honest I loved the books, and still count them among my favorites! It did not challenge my faith in any way for a couple of reasons: first of all, my faith is firm and I know what I believe and why I believe it, secondly, and my beliefs come from the Bible and biblical teaching and I realize (as many apparently don’t) that The Golden Compass is a fantasy novel written for young adults, not a theological manifesto.
While it may have some atheist undertones it is mostly an entertaining and well-told story that touches on themes everyone experiences like love, loss, betrayal, and growing up.
And for those who are deeply opposed to it, well, it’s worth seeing simply for the reasons you already said.
Sarah said
I just happened on this blog and started reading it and I found it incredibly interesting! Finally someone who thinks things through!
Melissa said
I understand that its okay to see this movie. I also think its okay to see American Gangster though. But on to my point:
I do think it is important to make people aware of the motive behind this movie. That way they can go into it looking at it as an opportunity to understand and later have conversations with non believers. (Instead of going into it looking at it as a good movie/story)
Also, I do understand that it is okay for mature adults to go see the movie…but I think it’s important to get the message/motive out there so that parents don’t take their children. I’d hate for kids to enjoy the movies and then become aethiests when the parents had good Godly intentions.
Sarah said
Thank you for an intelligent and tolerant opinion on this movie. That’s very rare to find these days.
As has been said before… The book’s fiction. Can you derive a meaning from it that runs deeper than the story? Of course. Should you? That’s the question.
I’ve read the books, all three of them, and I don’t see any part of the religion described that sounds remotely Christian. The Authority in Pullman’s books is a Satanic kind of being, vengeful and petty, and he is overthrown by forces of wisdom, love, and courage. One could definitely make the case that there are Christ figures in the books– Lyra and Will. We need to love God, not fear him; that’s the message we can take from Pullman’s work, not any of this nonsense about “killing God.”
But that’s my interpretation. There are a lot of others held forth in these comments, and that’s good– dialogue is always better than shrill hysteria. I see a lot of bickering about the “us vs them” mentality in these comments. That kind of division will always be there as long as atheists, agnostics, etc perceive Christians to be insular, angry, and easily offended. It only takes one…
But discussions like the one I’m seeing here form a wonderful start. Read the books, see the movie, because when others see that you have devoted time and understanding to your opinions (whether you like The Golden Compass or hate it) they are much more likely to be inspired by your example. We can’t judge what we don’t know, and we can’t resist it either. Awareness is always better than ignorance.
Mia said
In this trilogy, two kids set out to make things right in the world. In their world, the Church is corrupt and has been ultimately led to believe that removing one’s soul is the solution to the end of sin. They preform this “operation” on children mainly because they are innocent, and more pure, therefore, if they are disconnected from their soul, then, they will be sinless. You may have heard that “daemons” accompany everyone. Yes, they do, no, they are NOT demons. This is addressed in the second book very clearly.
“Where’s your daemon?”
“I don’t know what you mean about demons. In my world demon means… it means devil, something evil”
Daemons are your soul.
Good grief. One: God is not killed. The best evidence: THERE IS NO GOD IN THESE BOOKS. A corrupt angel parading around as God is destroyed. Two: This is NOT against believing in God, or in practicing the Christian faith– ONLY to show how corrupt Christianity as a power (think: Inquisition, colonization in the Americas, witch trials, etc) can become. It IS about anti-religion I think.
Do you not see that you are already posing judgments on these books that you have not read? Tell me one reader who has actually read these books, and has opposing views in it.
Think about it. Is reading a book about the Crusades sinful? If a movie came out about it (which many have), would you not watch it? You do know that the Crusades were about how Christians went out on the offensive to eliminate all non-Christians. Oh, yeah, that takes us to the Holocaust. Don’t learn about that, cause that bashes Christians too! They unmercifully murdered over 6 million Jews, along with many other non-Christian groups.
When I first read these books, I was in the third grade. Honestly, it never entered my mind that any of these books were anti-Christian (I am Christian). I thought it was just a fantasy story. What I did learn was empathy for those who believe they have great ideas with great motives, yet go about it all wrong. Like, Communism. Great concept- not so great execution.
Every single argument against it is a fallacy.
My final point: This is not a book against God. This is a book about good intentions gone wrong. It is also about love, sacrifices, and growing up in an adult world that cannot protect you as they should because they are so caught up in their religious politics.
Please, if you were the “good” Christians you think you are, you wouldn’t be judging this without having your own evidence. Or even the correct evidence.
kaylee2010 said
i think you’re totally right. funny thing that i read this today because earlier today i was talking about this movie with some friends at school. this gave me a different view on it. yeah i still think it’s a bad movie but i think that you have the right idea.
Su said
Wait. I think many of you say “When I found out what this book was about, I decided to never read the book or watch the movie because I’m a CHRISTIAN!”
You obviously have no idea what the book is about. You say you “make your judgments” – but that’s where it all goes wrong. Doesn’t the Bible say somewhere to not judge? Oh yeah, it says it THROUGHOUT.
Also, you are doing exactly what the book is against: Legalistic actions based on religious views that are supported by false claims.
Do you really think that censoring this from children because you have judged without finding out yourself? Whatever, don’t see it yourself if you think it’s wrong and don’t have the sense to do a little more research, but DO NOT keep from others seeing without having legitimate reasons.
Find out what this book is REALLY about, and NOT what all the biased anti-Pullman (Tolkien was atheist as well.. As well as slews of other authors).
Mia said
Here’s something insightful:
*TIP*
Why not try looking at forums made to SUPPORT this book? Then, read reviews from critics about it. This way you will have biased views from both sides (For/Against) plus, a unprejudiced view from a critic explaining the book. Hey! Look, you don’t even have to read this “evil” book that you know nothing about!
Ilse said
Regarding your article; while I disagree with some of your beliefs, I would like to say that I very much appreciate your attitude. I would also like to point out something that seems to have been overlooked; the movie is not the book and should not be expected to address the issues the book addresses. In addition, I feel that the series is not anti-Christian, it is anti-hate and anti-fundamentalist. It is a very intellectual work that needs to be read on a deeper level; it is not just good guys vs. bad guys. It is about children growing up and trying to find their place in the world. It is about love triumphing over hatred and ignorance. Yes, in the second book (if I recall correctly) the children do “kill” “God”, but the being they encounter is not truly GOD as we would conceptualize; merely an empty shell. In addition, one of the main villains of the first book, who is clearly shown to be the bad guy by the end, is against God…so the protagonist is standing up to the man who is going against God. I would also like to point out a misconception about atheism: atheists aren’t anti-God in the sense of consciously trying to go against God; for whatever reason, atheists simply beleive that there is not such thing as God. So, something about killing God cannot be atheistic propaganda even on its own terms, as any atheistic propaganda would hold that there is not nor ever was nor ever could be God.
I wonder how many people who are upset about TGC (books and film) have actually read the entire book? The plot is extremely complicated, and it would be easy to get a very wrong impression of the work’s thesis if one did not finish the story…kind of like how it would be very easy to get the wrong impression of the bible if you only read part of it.
Etch said
I honestly don’t know what the big deal is about this book/movie. I understand that people might find it offensive, but come on. It’s a book! Take it as it is. If someone wants to read the book or see the movie, let them. If someone wants to change their belief because of it, then ok. We shouldn’t be forcing people to do what we say. It’s a children’s book, I wouldn’t base my entire faith (or lack thereof as the book apparently “suggests”) on that. I am a Christian, but apparently not the best one, but that’s what some people say. I don’t think so. I love and respect God and Christ, and I say prayers; it may not be everyone else’s prayers, and I may not attend church every week like I should, but I don’t think makes me a bad person. And neither does believing in something else, or not believing in anything. I understand that many people want to convert people and spread God’s word, and I agree, but it shouldn’t be done forcefully. If someone refuses to believe in Christianity, we should not force them.
Oh, and Nihil161, that was extremely offensive. I don’t know what made you think of us like that. I help people plenty. I am very tolerant and accepting of people of different beliefs. I would give blood if I could, but I can’t. I do help plenty of people. I went to Costa Rica for a month to help children learn English (and no, it was not something I was forced to do either). So, next time, try to be a little less rude, and realize that you are contradicting yourself. “where you bash people for having different view”? And yet here you are, slandering Christians. Watch what you say.
READ THIS said
Okay, to what you said about seeing it so you can witness to nonbelievers— i’m sorry, but you should be able to witness without going to see the movie. It seems to me that you are using that as an excuse to “confirm” your decision to go see it.
The Bible says to run from temptation, not to put yourself in a position where you could be tempted. I see absolutely no reason to watch this movie or read the book, and come opening night…guess what?? I won’t be there.
To the people who say that we are blowing this thing out of proportion and that there’s no reason we shouldn’t see the movie and read the books, i say— we are NOT blowing it out of proportion. The man who wrote the books wrote them in an attempt to “kill Christianity in the minds of children”. If you claim to be a Christian, yet you support this… you may need to check yourself.. and watching the movie is supporting the people who made the movie. You may think this is just a harmless movie, but thats not what Phillip Pullman thought when he wrote it.
Plus, what good is there in putting this stuff in your head and exposing yourself to it?? There’s NO WAY it will help you in your walk with Christ, only hurt you. It is better to run from stuff like this than to think you are strong enough to resist it and going to see the movie so you can “talk to non-believers about it” (be honest..you’re most likely not going to witness while you are there anyways). Thats like saying, “im going to try drugs so that i can know what its like. then i can go and witness to people!!”. Well, it doesn’t work like that. Whats wrong is wrong, and you shouldn’t do it.
Rather, you should set an example by NOT going to see the movie.
Once again, i AM a Christian, and i DO NOT support this movie. I WILL NOT see it and i WILL NOT read the books. Hopefully others will do the same.
Liz said
First off, I must say thank you. You are the first rational Christian I have come across who isn’t telling me to not see this movie. Honestly, I was rather surprised to see the Catholic League and whoever else make such a fuss about the movie. I don’t remember them making such a fuss when the book came out. (correct me if I’m wrong on that) I’m not Christian, (Agnostic since I’m sure someone will want to know), but I like how you think of the movie in a positive light and can see how a person could use it to spread God’s love and hope to others. I wish people could accept others for being Atheist, Agnostic, Mormon, Jewish, whatever. -sigh- I suppose we’ll learn one day.
Amber said
I think the main points of the boycott that people should focus more on are
1) Being aware of what your children are going to watch, or why they will not watch it
2) Being prepared to explain to them why it is not a “good” movie for them
3) Being prepared to explain what the movie is saying and how it is wrong.
Too many parents let their kids watch whatever they want as long as it’s aimed toward children… example being Mean Girls… aimed toward younger teens, mostly preteens and elementary aged, yet it talks about things I, as an 18 year old, don’t dare to talk about or think about! And all in the name of comedy and entertainment.
Student said
I am a college student and a Christian. I agree with what you are saying. Being in school I have talked with and made friends with many people who do not believe in Christ. Do you want to know the number one reason why. It is because they are tired of the “Christian message” being shoved down their throats. What would we accomplish by boycotting this film? We will prove even more that we are biased, stubborn, and bullheaded people who do not care what others belive. I did not know anything about the movie except what I saw for the previews. What I really want us to think and pray about is how will we affect the people around us? It is probably different for each person. I probably would not want my kid seeing the movie either. Each of us on our own need to pray and see what God wants us to do.
I have seen alot of people quote the verse that we should not place anything evil before our eyes. That is true. But remember when Jesus said that it is not what goes into the man that defiles him but what comes out because what comes out is from the heart. I don’t want to make others misunderstande what I am trying to say. No we should not look at porno, or at other women/men with lust, because that is sin. The main point is that I see all of these Christians trying to make this huge movement against the world’s viewpoint (because that world does not belive in Christ because He doesn’t make sense)instead of trying to “heap coals on their head” by acting out of love. We need to start huge movements to help the homless person on the street by taking him/her home or giving our time to missions in the community and at home. If we show the world this revolutionary love, all of their claims against our character will be laid back on them. Maybe by showing this love the world will be turned upside down.
Cyceri said
I agree. It is important to know what we Christians may be questioned about and to develop reasonable, sound responses. But when deciding whether to go see the movie or read the books, the question is how it will affect our own beliefs. How will the messages affect you? Will you start to doubt? If you can honestly answer no, then go see it. Go ahead and be prepared for the possibility of being questioned by others about Christianity. In fact, if you think you may doubt, you may still decide to go see it. But there is a certain amount of risk here. The Bible teaches that we will doubt anyway, but the most important thing is to overcome it and become stronger because of it. Doubting helps us grow–as long as we don’t fall in the process. This is also true of the Davinci Code. That being said, it’s up to you. It’s a risk.
Shauna said
Liz:
Correct me if i’m wrong, but are you basically implying that Christians are the ones, the ‘people’, who need to accept the religions and beliefs you listed? Are Christians not also unaccepted and looked down upon by other religious people too? Why were they not included in your list of people we need to ‘just’ accept? Its a two-way street.
But even if it wasn’t your intention to imply that, I find it interesting how that seems to happen anyway. Maybe someone’s thoughts ARE filtering down through media, literature, etc; no? Kind of examplifying what worries me about authors such as Pullman, his/her ideas taking root even in an ‘unbiased’ person. One man is not the worry but many authors such as him are. A mantra has a tendency to take effect when said over and over.
Rational thought is also in the eye of the beholder. This blog is one contradiction after another, leaning more towards the unrational side.
No one, at least not me, is boycotting atheism. It’s not about accepting people but more about not appreciating the direct attack made on Christianity. When the author states such intents can you relly condemn a person for not sitting idly by and replying to said attack? Why is that such a bad thing?
R.E. said
To: Su Says:
November 28, 2007 at 1:27 am
Who wrote that, “Tolkien was atheist as well.. As well as slews of other authors.”
Actually, he wasn’t. He was in fact a Christian. And his trilogy, “The Lord of the Rings” is a biblical allegory. In fact, he was such a devout believer, that he was responsible for leading C.S. Lewis to accept Christ. C.S. Lewis had been an atheist before that, and then of course he went on to write “The Chronicles of Narnia”; which is another allegorical work.
And while some of the atheists and agnostic readers have suggested some various books, I’d like to recommend, “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel (who was a die-hard atheist before writing the book) and “More than a Carpenter” by Josh MacDowell. I really enjoyed reading both of these books because they’re both very analytical, if you like that sort of thing.
I think the whole point of this all, whether you see the movie or read the books, or do neither, is that you listen to the opposite side respectfully. As a Christian, we have an opportunity here, to “walk the walk” AND “talk the talk”. That can’t be done if you’re yelling at the other side, or sticking your fingers in your ears. Like Paul says, “When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.”
Thank you for creating a place where we, as humans with different beliefs, can talk to each other. You make total sense.
Haylie said
Hey,
You make some good points. I think your words are sensible and diplomatic. However, just to clarify (and I’m not trying to be nit-picky about every word you’re saying) You said nudity and pornography are the same thing always. Did you mean in just movies? Because think of the countless works of art that contain or model the human body. I don’t believe those are pornographic.
Brett said
So I have been reading some of the comments on here and I just want to ask one question, why are you labeling movies like American Gangster as “pornographic?” With this question I have three points to make:
1. How is it “pornographic” if it is about someone’s life? I mean if you made a movie about any period in history there will be violence and gore in it because, let’s face it, it’s human nature to wage wars.
2. Just because a film has violence, gore, drug use, etc., does it mean we need to label it as “pornographic?” Ok, first of all, there is a reason that they rate these things R…so kids won’t see them! And second of all, it’s about the life of a gangster, the word gangster is even in the title for goodness sake! What did you think it would contain, unicorns and references to God around every corner?
3. I can recall many a religious movie that contained “violence” and/or “gore”. Just about every movie about Jesus and about the Crusade (although I don’t know if Christians still think the Crusades were a good thing or bad).
All things considered, I think it is unfair to boycott American Gangster. I hear that it’s a very good movie and you Christian fanatical groups didn’t boycott The Godfather, and come on that’s about the mafia and didn’t have the lead fighting to support his ideals and his family.
P.S. Why did you omit the D word from my first post? It was in perfect context and they even say that word in church in that context and you certainly don’t have any problem with a pastor saying it.
Tracy said
Movies are exactly that… Movies. Whether a person is a christian or not it is doubtful that a movie is going to corupt him/her. I am tired of things like this. Instead why aren’t we fighting or posting to bring our troops home, or to bring a change to abused children. Why not boycott something that will make a difference now. TV shows are just as corupt as movies anymore but we filter out what is not acceptable to us and our family. It should be a personal choice and should be available if some chose to see it as with any movie or tv show.
Daniel said
If your faith is so weak that it can be tested by a movie….
If your faith is so weak you must shout down an opposing view….
If your faith is so weak that with 76% of the US population the same faith as you, you still consider you’re religion “under attack”…..
If you believe, have faith, if not you are lost no matter how many movies you watch.
Holley B said
Should we try pot, just to see what it’s like? Just for the purpose that we’d be able to relate to the temptations druggies feel? Personally that means of submitting yourself to influential danger, by relating to persons who don’t believe in any God, or that the book is harmful to children doesn’t appeal to logical thought.
I understand that not always being on the attack front is good. However, we should not be so willing to taste temptation just so that we may put up a fight. You can do that without being seen as a coward or ignorant.
Amadeus said
Thank you.
A thousand times thank you. So many of my friends have been bashing the idea of seeing this movie…and raving about American Gangster. I was sick when I read the reviews of American Gangster.
I am so glad that someone has the insight and wisdom to use their mind when discerning.
Satan is the best covert fighter this existence has ever seen and has already struck hard and fast.
Keep up the excellent work.
Lee Y said
I just wanted to add my own 2 cents about the golden compass, I have recently finished a year of ministry school and have spent much time studying the way this world and the church view God and oppose or accept what we believe as christians, I saw the movie Golden compass, I honestly didn’t get the impression that it was attacking God or Christianity at its core, to me it more felt like it was an attack against organized religion, against all of the sometimes far too apparent traditionalism and legalism found quite often in the church as a whole regardless of denomination. In fact I would almost say that if that movie is a true representation of how knowledgeable the author of the book is about God and how he truly feels I don’t see anything that is more severe than a simple misunderstanding or a jadedness from maybe a bad experience in Church this obviously just boils down to someone that has not ever truly experienced God but just religion and church and that is what the movie appears to be speaking out against go read 1 corinthians 13 or 1 peter 3:8-9 I cant imagine someone who had experienced community with other believers and experienced attitudes like those we ought to have according to those few verses would be attacking God, but more likely is that those verses probably describe the exact opposite of what the body of christ displays at times towards outsiders as well as other believers no doubt Sheep bite and because of that lack of love (in the last days the love of many will grow cold) and that wrong spirit is why we are seeing movies like Golden Compass and why its so popular, think about it a kids movie yet so many have seen it and relate to it?
paul a. hand said
Awesome! I’ve been ask why I believe in a mythical man in the sky. The answer is because I want to. If you choose not to I really don’t care. I’m a believer, and a sinner, and I do my best to find the good in this world, and stay close to it. I love you weather you’re like me or not. Deal with it.
George Hoelzeman said
how is nudity always pornographic? I’d hardly consider Michelangelo’s David or the Sistine Chapel, or Botticelli’s Birth of Venus or the Eve portal of Veseley pronographic. In point of fact, prior to the puritanization of Christianity in the 17th Century nudity was symbolic not only of the soul’s presence before God, but also the pure, primal state of Man and even Virtue itself.
Nudity is not itself pornographic, even in video form. Its how nudity is treated that becomes problematic.
Other than that, your overall statement is pretty brilliantly articulated.
That having been said, I won’t see TGC because I’ve no interest in it.
Pax
Richard said
Very good blog. My biggest concern about the outcry against The Golden Compass was the huge praise received by The Passion of the Christ. Here is a graphic movie where a depiction of their Lord and Savior is being brutalized, and Christians flocked to this movie as if watching it was a requirement to get in to heaven. It bothers me more that there is an outcry against a fictional book where a fictional deity is killed rather than an outcry over a depiction of the murder of their actual Savior. Sure, it was based on what most deem actual events, why such a huge focus and a rush over His mutilation rather than the resurrection? The miracles? The life? I just don’t get it.
I did watch The Golden Compass. The first movie has nothing to do with ‘killing God.’ There are talking animals. There is a mystical substance that allows inter dimensional transportation. Why so serious…? It’s clearly a work of fiction.
Josh R said
By attacking this film and keeping your kids from viewing it, you are becoming more like the church depicted in the film.
Boycotting a film seems like a trivial thing for a Christian to do, while there are such atrocities being done by Christians in the real world.
Would Jesus support a needless war, where the imperialistic force is a “Christian” nation?
Would Jesus support a capitalist system spun out of control, where 5% of its citizens have 98% of the wealth? I can recall many instances of Jesus sharing with the poor, but Christians support trickle-down economics that financially rape the poor.
If you ignore reality, but condemn a film that takes place in a fantastic setting, then your priorities need to be checked.
Qazaq said
We must take the book as all it is: a book. I read the books, when I around 12-13. I thought they were the best books I had ever read. And I still think very highly of them. WHAT? I’M ATHEIST??! No. I’m actually a Christian. The books are not about “killing god.” They, among other things, are about a boy and a girl growing up, the hard way. They reveal the evils of Christianity: evils that actually exist. Christians denouncing the movie and books as anti-religious and everything are simply missing the point. We must take and use the book, although it was written as a decry against Christianity, for our own purposes, it should be instigating a Revival, a new wave to cleanse Christianity of its faults. Instead, we sit back and boycott and whine about how everyone is anti-Christian and we have to fight back against the infidels. How about, instead of doing as those around us do, point the finger, accuse, fight back, how about we look inside and look at the evils that we have been convicted of. How about, instead of dogmatically ignoring those who bring up good criticism of us, we look at that criticism and fix the internal problems that we are shown.
The truth is…God is old. He is dying. (That’s a paraphrased quote from the third book). Or rather, His representatives are old and dying. To us, Christianity is just a title to defend. It’s time to open our eyes and see on a higher level, as we are supposed to, that the people of this world.
Caleb
Andrea said
Thank you for this very well written post. You have articulated perfectly thoughts that have been circulating in my mind for quite some time now.
Woody said
Those who stated that nudity is not always pornographic have a point, but I think before they can actually be persuasive, they’ll need a little bit of backup. I can defend their point.
Anyone know of a number of early Christians who were poor & without houses or clothes while living in hot climates, where clothes wouldn’t be comfy anyway? Surely there were two genders involved in such abject poverty. They were not guilty of adultery in their hearts, unless, of course, their bodies were inherently “poor-nographic”. Instead, I believe they were trying to please God & live in sexual purity w/ only the resources they had. Needed they panic about resources they had not? I wouldn’t think so, especially since Jesus Himself said not to worry about tomorrow, including but not limited to, clothes to wear. Surely that teaching couldn’t possibly have been followed had they any hang-ups about the human body.